@mrundkvist
I've always been a little astonished by the success of the Lovecraftian games.

When CoC was first released, I remember thinking that it was a great little game, but a non-heroic horror game based on the works of an obscure pulp writer was never going to be more than a niche curiosity.

I never would have believed there would be 7 editions, and that other Lovecraftian games would essentially form their own genre. A RPG genre that overshadowed seemingly more marketable genres - superheroes, sci-fi, espionage, etc.

It's cool - but strange.

@ng76 @mrundkvist I've long argued that Call of Cthulhu is really the *most* heroic RPG.

D&D is full of magic, enchanted weapons and armour, ever increasing abilities to brush aside perils, to the extent that your characters can't ever return to a previous horror because it would no longer be any sort of challenge.

CoC takes fairly ordinary, often non-martial, people in a world where magic is rare and comes at a terrible price. Other people will react poorly to you waving weapons around, and the horrors you face might just laugh at them. You can't win. You probably can't even convince the people you are fighting for that you are not a lunatic. The best you can do is to give mankind a little more time, even though it will cost you everything.

And yet, in CoC you still stand up and fight.

That's heroic. Truly heroic.

I was just talking to @devilsjunkshop about this regarding the "Everyday Heroes" RPG when they most evidently aren't. The sheer asymmetry in CoC is astronomical, which probably means the Stars are Right.

@BigJackBrass @ng76 @mrundkvist

@Printdevil @devilsjunkshop @ng76 @mrundkvist Yes, to me there's a lot of confusion about what heroism really means. D&D cosplays being heroic in an American action movie way, and the vast majority of games ape its approach. I think Jerry D. Grayson was right when he published Mythic D6 and said that fantasy, modern action, sci-fi etc RPGs are actually all superhero games.

I think you can be heroic no matter the power level. There's more of a repetitive soap opera aspect to most games.

@BigJackBrass @devilsjunkshop @ng76 @mrundkvist

@Printdevil @BigJackBrass @devilsjunkshop @ng76 @mrundkvist one aspect is that it rarely feels like D&D-style characters are risking or sacrificing much. Sure, fighting monsters is technically dangerous, but mechanically (and for the sake of the campaign) there's very little chance of permanent death or any long-term consequences that aren't outright beneficial (loot and XP).

@Printdevil @BigJackBrass @devilsjunkshop @ng76 @mrundkvist a lot of heroic figures sacrifice their social position or comfort or chance at a normal life for the sake of the greater good, but it rarely feels like D&D characters are doing any of those things. They tend to *want* to fight monsters and explore dungeons rather than having normal lives, and are perfectly happy to live in tents eating dried jerky so they can save all their money for fancier swords.

@shimminbeg I suppose it would be difficult to roleplay through several characters variations on 'reluctantly taking up the sword' but I suppose you could factor in some sort of 'why are you doing this and not farming' aspect as part of your character generation. Of course the main issue is if they don't want to be adventurers then it's a game about 'being a miller's son' or 'is it harvest time again'. @Printdevil @BigJackBrass @ng76 @mrundkvist