Violence is always the answer
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Yes, thank you!! Found the scene itself since the whole serial is apparently on youtube: https://youtu.be/lLBHbt9QYFU?t=5458
Funny how my memory had it in black and white. And I remember the scene being much longer. I watched it when I was like, 9.
Maybe your childhood TV was black and white.
Length, brains just love to add details that dont exist
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It is solvable. You ask one guard at random, “Which door would the other guard have said leads to certain doom if I had asked them?”
And no matter which guard you ask, go through the door they answer with. If it was the truth teller guard, they’ll tell you which door the liar would have said, and if it’s the liar they’ll lie about which door the truth teller would have said.
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They will both point to the bad door.
If asking the thruthful guard, he will point to the door the liar says is safe, which would be the bad door. If asking the liar, he would consider what the thruthful guard says is safe, then reverse that answer, still ending up on the bad door.
They cancel out, so whichever guard you ask doesn’t matter.
Wouldnt they instead keep pointing like clockwork towards different doors seeing that they would have to adjust for the other guard?
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Jajaja no creo
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The liar, knowing the truth-teller will point to the good door, points to the bad door.
The truth-teller, knowing the liar would point to the bad door, points to the bad door.
Either way, you take the one your guard doesn’t point to.
But they would have to keep adjusting since they both have to answer acco4ding to what the other one says
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I’ve only heard it with one question, that’s the whole point. Otherwise you just ask a guard some trivial question (e.g. What color is the sky?) to determine which is the liar, then just ask which is the safe door.
The whole point is to get the information you need from a single question.
“What would the result be of combining the following terms with “and”: the direction of the correct door, and the color of the sky?”edit: im stupid
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Right, in which case the door they’re in front of is the safe door because they lied and said “Yes” when asked if the truth teller is in front of the safe door. And if they tell the truth and say yes, they’re still the person in front of the safe door. By asking it that way they make it so it doesn’t matter if they’re the liar or not. “Yes” means that person’s door is safe and “No” means you want the other door, no matter who you ask.
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You can ask both guards if an item is an item. “Does this cup contain fluid” would work, it doesn’t have to be a dead guy.
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But they would have to keep adjusting since they both have to answer acco4ding to what the other one says
no because the question was which door would the other person say is safe, they both point to the not safe door
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I love playing low Intelligence high Wisdom characters. Because Wisdom governs stats like Perception, Insight, and Animal Handling. So your character will notice things that the rest of the party misses, but often doesn’t have the intelligence to put the individual pieces together.
Once played a high wisdom barbarian. He would notice things like traps or clues, but I would RP it with things like “Hey, why’s that wire stretched across the path? Someone is going to trip over that…” The other players very quickly learned to pay attention whenever I asked stupid questions, because it was usually my way of announcing “I noticed something that the rest of you missed.”
I wish our DM had real-life message to telepathically convey stuff to just one person.
In my group there would be literal zero chance of the others not listening to me if I ever threw a “hmm why is that wire there”, because they would’ve heard the dm either tell me due to passive perception or had me throw a roll and then tell me. So they know it’s a trap no matter if I want to rp it. Every time I get frustrated and question it, there’s this one guy who always has the reasoning and justifying at hand why they would know to do the right thing and to be fair they kind of make sense always, but there’s zero chance he’d come up with that just by my rp line alone without knowing for a fact it’s a trap.
I think that’s the worst kind of meta gaming. They are fully blind to the meta gaming there and just do it by instinct. And when you try and question, they always have a defense ready, even if it’s so wildly specific and unlikely but you can’t really fault it because they’re not stupid, the justifications hold, it’s just that the only way they habitually generate them is because they know what I know despite they couldn’t in-game know.
Like I’ve occasionally just left the thing unsaid in-game out of frustration and just reason to DM that there’s so much going on, my focus instantly switched to another thing and I forgot because I’m not very smart. So we all know there’s a trap but now nobody has told this to the others.
What do they do? The one guy fucking always comes up with some shit like “hmmm be wary, they must’ve laid traps here, hey you with good investigation, please look around and see if there’s one in this specific place for some reason” and the rolls of course often succeed because they always choose to best one to solve that.
But from rp perspective, we’ve walked this path for a while, and this thought only came up now, that it might be trapped? Just right now when you know, outside of the game, that there’s a trap?
I call bullshit and it frustrates me so much, there’s very little chance of anything interesting ever happening in-game because we seldom miss anything or do the wrong things, because “somehow” we always happen to do the right things no matter who notices things in-game or rolls or whatever, no matter how much any of us attempt to rp it, somebody just meta games it without it being explicitly or admittedly meta gaming and gets all defensive when questioned and because they now know everything, can figure out an explanation the DM can do nothing but accept because it makes sense, now that they know to pull the right shit out their ass.
Ugh. It’s not even a big deal, our group is fun and the adventuring isn’t bad, these things don’t happen often enough for it to really affect things, but god do I hate it. This ended up being a rant, I didn’t even know how much I get frustrated with it until I just now read this back. Jesus…
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Jajaja no creo
JAJAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJJAJAJJAJAJJAJAJAJAJJ almighty
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You can ask both guards if an item is an item. “Does this cup contain fluid” would work, it doesn’t have to be a dead guy.
Well, obviously. But a barbarian might have a preference.
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I think you mean
HEY, WHAT'S UP? -
and also, using “correct path” instead of “right path” will be less confuzzling because english words can have multiple meanings and are the dumb.
You should even specify “path to the castle”, because there isn’t technically a “correct” path.
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Wouldnt they instead keep pointing like clockwork towards different doors seeing that they would have to adjust for the other guard?
No because them pointing at a door is answering a different question than the one that was posited in the question.
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You should even specify “path to the castle”, because there isn’t technically a “correct” path.
yeah, it could be the liar guard’s desire or prime directive to send you down the deadly path. to him that could be interpretated as the correct path. especially if these are automatons working off of some machine logic. like, they don’t even need to be out to get you, that’s totally something that bad code could do on accident.
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That’s funny! but if you want to know how to solve this problem every time, even when asking one single question, just ask this question:
“If I ask the other guy which is the correct path, which path will he tell me?”
No matter who you ask, both of them will point to the WRONG path, meaning the correct one is the one they DIDN’T point to. Here is the logic.
For the sake of argument, let’s assume the correct path is the right path. When you ask that question, if the person is the truthful one, he will be honest and say the left path. Because if you ask the liar what the correct path is, he will say it is the left path (which is false). Now if you ask the liar what the other guy will say the correct path is, he will lie to you and say it is the left path (which is also false, the truthful one will tell you it is the right path and not the left).
The liar responds “I don’t know”
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And the surviving guard will most definitely answer a 2nd question despite the rules.
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You should even specify “path to the castle”, because there isn’t technically a “correct” path.
This puzzle was used in more than one place than in Labyrinth. I played video games where they had that puzzle (Ultima 6 had that).
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But they would have to keep adjusting since they both have to answer acco4ding to what the other one says
The question we ask if “What would the other guard say if I asked him which door is the good one?”
Liar says Bad Door
Truther says Bad Door
Now, for their answers to update, they would have to ne answering the question, “Which door would the other guard say if I asked him ‘Which guard would the other guard say is the good door?’”
We want a guard to answer “What would the other guard say is the good door?” Regardless of how they answer our “outer” question, the answer to the “inner” question (“which is the good door?”) doesn’t change.
Liar doesn’t care that Truther would say that “Liar would say the right door is the good one,” Liar is being asked how Truther would answer “Which door is the good one”.
I know I basically just said the same thing three times. My brain isn’t working to break this out the elegant way I can’t quite assemble. But hopefully some part of all this helps. The crux is that the question that they are imagining the other guard’s answer to is not the same question they themselves are being asked.
