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Wandering Adventure Party

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  3. Hot take: Strongest creatures in the setting shouldn't just be clowned by PCs with no resistance.

Hot take: Strongest creatures in the setting shouldn't just be clowned by PCs with no resistance.

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  • P psud@aussie.zone

    D&D 3.5 characters can scale pretty high

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    dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
    wrote last edited by
    #42

    Not on a Superman or Wonder Woman level but I think you could make a strong argument that Wish fixes (or breaks) everything by itself.

    P 1 Reply Last reply
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    • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

      Not on a Superman or Wonder Woman level but I think you could make a strong argument that Wish fixes (or breaks) everything by itself.

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      psud@aussie.zone
      wrote last edited by
      #43

      My character that got most close to broken was a Master Of Many Forms druid, though I was playing with a group with two well skilled min-maxers who were ridiculous from the outset at level 3

      Wish can’t make you great, it can’t do much more than the equivalent of about half a level, you need a broken character design from the start

      Of course there’s also support for epic level progression taking you beyond level 20. A druid at level 20 could face an army and win

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • mousekeyboard@ttrpg.networkM mousekeyboard@ttrpg.network

        You say that, but IIRC there are official DnD statements that gods do not have statblocks because they are too powerful for mortals to even try to fight. They renamed the Tiamat statblock to Aspect of Tiamat for precisely this reason.

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        Hugucinogens
        wrote last edited by
        #44

        When you need to stop your players from trying to fight the Gods.

        MoahM 1 Reply Last reply
        6
        • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

          Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

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          I This user is from outside of this forum
          invertedspear@lemmy.zip
          wrote last edited by
          #45

          Also WoD:

          Player: I’m a mage I’m literally changing reality, I will cure that vampire.

          System: vampirism is a curse from God, do you really think you can roll more successes than God?

          J 1 Reply Last reply
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          • I invertedspear@lemmy.zip

            Also WoD:

            Player: I’m a mage I’m literally changing reality, I will cure that vampire.

            System: vampirism is a curse from God, do you really think you can roll more successes than God?

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            jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
            wrote last edited by
            #46

            We used to talk about how to cure Vampires in Mage (awakening, 2e).

            The easiest is probably time magic. With Time4, rules as written you can rewrite their history so they never became a vampire. It persists until the spell elapses, but you could make that last a year without too much trouble (assuming time4, gnosis3, a rote skill of 4).

            With Time5, the “fuck you” level of Mage, you can use the Unmaking practice and prevent them from being embraced, though that’s big hubris and risks butterfly effects at the GM’s discretion.

            Other approaches I’m less sure about. You could probably do something with Life5 (make a new body), 5 or so points of Death or Spirit to get a new soul (fun fact: in awakening, souls are fungible), and Mind5 to put their mind in the new body. Kind of a ship of Theseus situation.

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            • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

              It is actually bad game design in the sense that there really isn’t a decent mechanic to escape monsters.

              5.0 orcs, for example, had double the speed of the average PC with their dumbass free move action.

              The solution is rolling disengage as a series of skill checks (like World of Darkness would…) but then you have to explain how, exactly, a dude in full plate escapes a dragon.

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              jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
              wrote last edited by
              #47

              D&D, especially 5e, is just missing broad sections of game stuff so it can “leave it up to the DM”. Other stuff is really underbaked. Degree of success, succeed at a cost, non-violent conflict, ending combat other than totally wiping the other factions…

              That can be fine if everyone’s on the same page, but since D&D is the mega popular game you’re likely to be playing with new players, or just randos, and that can lead to tension.

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              • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

                We used to talk about how to cure Vampires in Mage (awakening, 2e).

                The easiest is probably time magic. With Time4, rules as written you can rewrite their history so they never became a vampire. It persists until the spell elapses, but you could make that last a year without too much trouble (assuming time4, gnosis3, a rote skill of 4).

                With Time5, the “fuck you” level of Mage, you can use the Unmaking practice and prevent them from being embraced, though that’s big hubris and risks butterfly effects at the GM’s discretion.

                Other approaches I’m less sure about. You could probably do something with Life5 (make a new body), 5 or so points of Death or Spirit to get a new soul (fun fact: in awakening, souls are fungible), and Mind5 to put their mind in the new body. Kind of a ship of Theseus situation.

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                thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                wrote last edited by
                #48

                In oWoD meanwhile there is an entire book with ideas how Mages could fix a vampire and what would be the consequences.

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                • H honytawk@lemmy.zip

                  Heroic fantasy vs dark gritty fantasy.

                  Give me heroic fantasy every time.

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                  thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                  wrote last edited by
                  #49

                  Even in Heroic Fantasy the enemies should be challenging, while in D&D (not even 5e, 3.5 had this issue too), it’s basically inevitable that high enough PCs will rollstomp everything, laughing all the way.

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                  • D Hugucinogens

                    When you need to stop your players from trying to fight the Gods.

                    MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                    MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                    Moah
                    wrote last edited by
                    #50

                    There’s an old Dragon email about a guy needing TSR to print a new “deities and demigods” because his players had already beaten all those from the original.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                      Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                      MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                      MoahM This user is from outside of this forum
                      Moah
                      wrote last edited by
                      #51

                      WW also made a guy who was a vampire, mage, werewolf and eventually ashtray, so i wouldn’t put them on a pedestal

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                      • MoahM Moah

                        WW also made a guy who was a vampire, mage, werewolf and eventually ashtray, so i wouldn’t put them on a pedestal

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                        thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                        wrote last edited by
                        #52

                        And then he either got murdered by PCs or Metuzalah or exploded from Paradox, before turnign into ashtray.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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