Your comment was long so I guess it’s on me for not highlighting which part I was commenting on:

I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government.

I’m saying this hope is misguided. The cons are solidifying as Canada’s far right and the Liberals will never be right of center enough to make the Cons not viable.

similar to how they’d gone too far to the left recently

lol I’ll read this as “too far for their own good” instead of “too far for the common good”, then I could see how that could be a thing

I don’t really see how anything from their current situation or their historic style of government translates to Canada’s electoral stuff

And yet, PP is copying the homework

Only works if the NDP are smart enough to not also lean right

Conservative floor crossers are a clear data point that refutes your proposition. I mean, it’s pretty much literal proof to the contrary.

Similarly, the liberals right leaning bias, having gained increased support from moderate right wingers, is making more far left supporters reconsider their support of the libs – making it fair to reason that the NDP will see a bit of a bump next time.

If memory serves, the harder-right social sorts were basically annihilated in the late 90s. In 1993, the conservatives had just 2 seats. The reform party from western Canada was originally a more socially neutral / fiscally progressive movement – it didn’t focus at all on women’s rights, though it did propose some modest reforms to things like immigration and the approach to quebec. It only really became more stupid, when it morphed into the Alliance, and then absorbed the Eastern conservatives to try and gain national support – and with those eastern cons came the social bullshit. But long and short, a fiscally conservative but socially progressive or neutral party likely still has the potential to undercut the far right conservatives.

It is legitimately not even as simple as Canadians wanting to do something given that corporations have shown that they are very very willing to flee countries to others if they don’t like the policy there.

Redditors and Lemmings are quite frankly, naiive children in their approach to politics. Just picking the most “altruistic” path and ignoring the realities of the way the world works is not going to bring about the outcome you want.

This is f-tier toxic social media rage bait.

She’s says literally nothing of substance, just makes sweeping generalizations to try and get outraged for clicks.

Go read actual written journalism.

If the NDP had formed government before I’d completely agree. There’s just no way the last election would go to an untested party during a time we’re being threatened by the US, and fascism is building up at our doorstep.

This term is arguably one of the most difficult scenarios for a gov’t to deal with in our history. I don’t blame Canadians for wanting a gov’t that, though both good and bad, has proven they actually can govern.

This election had a lot of the markers of the WWII era when both Canada and the US voted for a gov’t and leader with experience, King and Roosevelt respectively. We didn’t have the option of a tested leader, but we did have the option of a tested party. This effectively removed the NDP as an option.

I do however think you’re right that the things you’re talking about should have been done years before, and we may have effectively screwed ourselves by not making those changes when we had the chance over the last few decades. We may never get that chance again.

My hope is that the NDP elects a strong, charismatic leader and they come out of the gate loud and hard. Scream about social programs, services, taxing corps and the wealthy, and they don’t shut up for the next 3 years.

They’ve shown themselves to be effective during the Liberal’s minority government, and both the Liberals and Conservatives may be “tested” but they have failed those tests to varying degrees.

And then there’s that “charismatic leader” crap. PP was such a dweeby shit-stain that even some Conservatives, such as my dad who surprisingly voted against him, thought he was childish asshole. Trudeau was just attractive but very hollow, and Carney is so fucking bland I still can’t even see him as the PM and he feels more like an “acting PM”. Meanwhile everyone is always saying that the NDP needs to have some uber charismatic leader to deserve any votes and even though Singh was very vocal despite the party’s lack of seats that apparently didn’t count. He didn’t just bend to the Liberals and used the NDP’s power within the minority government to represent their people and to push leftist policy.

Everything you’ve said sounds fine if you don’t look into any further than that. They don’t hold up under any amount of scrutiny.

Being in a position of being needed and using that to their advantage was both smart and good for Canadians. But still a far cry from showing leadership and certainly didn’t show they could handle dealing with a fascist gov’t threatening us.

As far as charisma, I never said it was needed to deserve anything. They don’t need a charismatic leader to be worth voting for, they need one to get people to really listen. This is unfortunate, but it’s the way of the world. Charisma will be needed to convince people to look at the NDP as a real choice. We’ve seen what a lack of it can do to one of the most popular parties in the country, the NDP needs every bonus they can get.

So they show us that they can represent(lead) their people even when it’s diffocult and even when the most power they have is leveraging their very few seats under a minority government and that doesn’t show leadership potential to you? And the Liberals showed us over and over that the most they can be trusted with is not making things massively worse on purpose. And I’m still not forgiving them for promising voting reform to get elected and throwing it out when they learned that if people actually had a real choice they’d likely never win again.

Canadians need to grow up. We sit here absolutely terrified to the point where the Liberals can do whatever they want since no one is paying attention and no one has the slightest spine necessary to stand up against them. They could run a stale bagel against some super charismatic NDP leader and it wouldn’t matter if the voter base is just going to say “I don’t want to vote for them but I need to”. We’re trained like abused dogs to run back to our shitty owners out of fear of retribution.

Be serious.

Dude, I’m not disagreeing with your views, but you’re just proving the point of why the conversation started in the first place; to the vast majority of Canadians, the NDP just weren’t an option. Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir, but I’d be deluding myself if I thought they had a shot this election.

This election, only one thing mattered; stopping the Conservatives. The NDP didn’t even remotely have that shot. The Liberals could, and did, and most voters knew that.

I’ll reiterate the entire point of this convo, the NDP were not an option this time.