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  3. Hot take: Strongest creatures in the setting shouldn't just be clowned by PCs with no resistance.

Hot take: Strongest creatures in the setting shouldn't just be clowned by PCs with no resistance.

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  • M majormajormajormajor@lemmy.ca

    If you ain’t dying, you ain’t trying.

    D This user is from outside of this forum
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    dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
    wrote last edited by
    #16

    It is actually bad game design in the sense that there really isn’t a decent mechanic to escape monsters.

    5.0 orcs, for example, had double the speed of the average PC with their dumbass free move action.

    The solution is rolling disengage as a series of skill checks (like World of Darkness would…) but then you have to explain how, exactly, a dude in full plate escapes a dragon.

    T J 2 Replies Last reply
    19
    • Ithorian [comrade/them]I Ithorian [comrade/them]

      The Pathfinder game i play can be brutal. The party has learned to just nope the fuck out if something looks sketchy. The dm told us at the beginning that the world was “real” and we’re just thrown in it, so nothing is level adjusted.

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      dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
      wrote last edited by
      #17

      Beat the campaign by forcing the DM to explain the logistics of how the monsters find their daily calories

      S 1 Reply Last reply
      4
      • The Bard in GreenT The Bard in Green

        Meh, I can make a Swara bastet / Tremere abomination with ranks in Celerity and mage powers and cybernetic arms from that one Pentex supplement who can attack 30 times in Crinos (but that’s not a problem cuz I’m Metis with some pointless “story factor” drawback that has no effect on my combat capabilities) with enchanted plasma cannons, doing 300d aggravated before Cain gets his first action.

        D This user is from outside of this forum
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        dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
        wrote last edited by
        #18

        Okay you still die

        1 Reply Last reply
        10
        • 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 K 🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮

          Depends on the level of the PC, and/or if they can come up with a really good reason why a bunch of weak mortals could feasibly defeat a literal god. If the plan is clever enough, fuck the rules and stats. The point is to have fun.

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          dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
          wrote last edited by dragontypewyvern@midwest.social
          #19

          It’s never the real god, just a physical avatar. There’s still a lot of Batman vs Superman narrative horseshit in the idea though

          “Oh you surprised the guy who moves faster than most speedsters and can hear and see everything around him. Sure, okay, then he leaves and throws an asteroid he found within half a second from orbit before you’re done blinking”

          DnD avatars don’t really scale that hard but neither do PCs so all of those fights revolve around the avatar being stupid or using a McGuffin

          P 1 Reply Last reply
          4
          • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

            Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

            Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
            Carl [he/him]C This user is from outside of this forum
            Carl [he/him]
            wrote last edited by
            #20

            This is very game dependent. Right now I’m in a pretty brutal one where everyone is branded by the goddess of mind control and we have miniboss encounters with our own former PCs who’ve been turned into grotesque monsters - but I’ve also played in games where the PCs were newcomers to Olympus and more or less ended up recreating the first few God of War games.

            1 Reply Last reply
            6
            • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

              Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

              G This user is from outside of this forum
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              geolaw
              wrote last edited by
              #21

              Cthulhu kills 1D6 Characters per round

              1 Reply Last reply
              6
              • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                Z This user is from outside of this forum
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                ziggurat@jlai.lu
                wrote last edited by
                #22

                I am not that much a D&D player, but doesn’t it a huge power scale meaning that in the lower levels, it’s fairly easy to design a you fucking loose encounter. And isn’t there The Tarasque who is basically a you fucking loose statblock

                I am all for a choose your fight approach where you should definitely not mess with someone bigger/stronger especiully without a plan or a lot of explosives. However, I expect that PC can make it out of an ordinary fight (just make sure it’s not a target shooting practice and put 1-2 PC on the ground). Then if the 13th gen newborns vampire want to fight the 5th gen prince, not my problem if they have to burn their character sheet afterwards.

                Finally, one of the best rpg out there is 10 candles where you know from scratch that everyone will die

                A A 2 Replies Last reply
                12
                • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                  Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  Tar_Alcaran
                  wrote last edited by
                  #23

                  The official charactersheet for Caine: https://64.media.tumblr.com/e06763afdbed16a49a0146a2282002a4/tumblr_n6pj41Ch1s1qhuazoo1_540.jpg

                  macnielD 1 Reply Last reply
                  37
                  • rudyharrelson@lemmy.radioR rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio

                    The dog on the left is such a strawman lol. Those who would say such a thing are few and far between. I know plenty of DMs and players who think the PCs’ combat encounters should be challenging and even lethal.

                    𝔄 𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 𝔭𝔦𝔢𝔠𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔢𝔰𝔢Z This user is from outside of this forum
                    𝔄 𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 𝔭𝔦𝔢𝔠𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔢𝔰𝔢Z This user is from outside of this forum
                    𝔄 𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 𝔭𝔦𝔢𝔠𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔢𝔰𝔢
                    wrote last edited by
                    #24

                    To be fair, starting at around level 13 it becomes more challenging to, well, challenge a party without having dragons and shit everywhere. You can almost not build encounters with “normal” enemies anymore.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    5
                    • rudyharrelson@lemmy.radioR rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio

                      The dog on the left is such a strawman lol. Those who would say such a thing are few and far between. I know plenty of DMs and players who think the PCs’ combat encounters should be challenging and even lethal.

                      F This user is from outside of this forum
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                      fartmaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #25

                      I mean this meme is built for strawmen that’s what it is

                      Ricky RigatoniR 1 Reply Last reply
                      17
                      • Z ziggurat@jlai.lu

                        I am not that much a D&D player, but doesn’t it a huge power scale meaning that in the lower levels, it’s fairly easy to design a you fucking loose encounter. And isn’t there The Tarasque who is basically a you fucking loose statblock

                        I am all for a choose your fight approach where you should definitely not mess with someone bigger/stronger especiully without a plan or a lot of explosives. However, I expect that PC can make it out of an ordinary fight (just make sure it’s not a target shooting practice and put 1-2 PC on the ground). Then if the 13th gen newborns vampire want to fight the 5th gen prince, not my problem if they have to burn their character sheet afterwards.

                        Finally, one of the best rpg out there is 10 candles where you know from scratch that everyone will die

                        A This user is from outside of this forum
                        A This user is from outside of this forum
                        archpawn@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #26

                        And isn’t there The Tarasque who is basically a you fucking loose statblock

                        Mostly. They really bungled it in the 2014 statblock. Other editions gave it some combination of ranged attacks, regeneration, a way to cancel flight, and a burrow speed. In 2014, it had none of these. A level 5 Wizard could borrow a Repeating heavy crossbow from an Artificer, repeatedly cast Phantom Steed to stay out of its range, and take it down on its own. Or instead of a wizard, use an Aarakocra from Elemental Evil Player’s Companion with 2 levels in Rogue (so it can learn Cunning Action), and it will be able to fly faster than the Tarrasque. Unless you use Chase rules.

                        In 2024, they have a ranged attack and a burrow speed, and they’re significantly faster. It’s hard to just attack from a safe distance and they can always just head underground. But if you can get 150 feet in the air, you’re at an impasse where neither can hurt the other. And a high-level party has a lot of crazy tools at their disposal.

                        The problem isn’t enemies that are too hard or too easy. The problem is the GM not knowing ahead of time which it will be.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        17
                        • T Tar_Alcaran

                          The official charactersheet for Caine: https://64.media.tumblr.com/e06763afdbed16a49a0146a2282002a4/tumblr_n6pj41Ch1s1qhuazoo1_540.jpg

                          macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                          macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                          macniel
                          wrote last edited by dmmacniel@feddit.org
                          #27

                          I like his weakness 🙂

                          Also shouldn’t his sire be Lilith, oh no wait he was cursed by God yeah.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          14
                          • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

                            It is actually bad game design in the sense that there really isn’t a decent mechanic to escape monsters.

                            5.0 orcs, for example, had double the speed of the average PC with their dumbass free move action.

                            The solution is rolling disengage as a series of skill checks (like World of Darkness would…) but then you have to explain how, exactly, a dude in full plate escapes a dragon.

                            T This user is from outside of this forum
                            T This user is from outside of this forum
                            thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                            wrote last edited by
                            #28

                            “Have you seen Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?”

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • The Bard in GreenT The Bard in Green

                              Meh, I can make a Swara bastet / Tremere abomination with ranks in Celerity and mage powers and cybernetic arms from that one Pentex supplement who can attack 30 times in Crinos (but that’s not a problem cuz I’m Metis with some pointless “story factor” drawback that has no effect on my combat capabilities) with enchanted plasma cannons, doing 300d aggravated before Cain gets his first action.

                              T This user is from outside of this forum
                              T This user is from outside of this forum
                              thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network
                              wrote last edited by
                              #29

                              Caine congratulates you on making him laugh before killing you.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              6
                              • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                                Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                K This user is from outside of this forum
                                keepcarrot [she/her]
                                wrote last edited by
                                #30

                                I feel like this is one of those “make sure people are on the same page before you start running the rpg”. I’ve had players react very badly to their characters being maimed and stuff (a fairly normal Dark Heresy event), but I’ve also had some players want a severe tacticool experience. And some people want cozy vibes with some dice rolling.

                                D&D does suffer from a lot of system/setting baggage as well as the expectation that the system works as well from level 1 to 20+.

                                I want to play shadowrun again, for all its flaws

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                8
                                • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                                  Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                                  honytawk@lemmy.zip
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #31

                                  Heroic fantasy vs dark gritty fantasy.

                                  Give me heroic fantasy every time.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  8
                                  • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

                                    It’s never the real god, just a physical avatar. There’s still a lot of Batman vs Superman narrative horseshit in the idea though

                                    “Oh you surprised the guy who moves faster than most speedsters and can hear and see everything around him. Sure, okay, then he leaves and throws an asteroid he found within half a second from orbit before you’re done blinking”

                                    DnD avatars don’t really scale that hard but neither do PCs so all of those fights revolve around the avatar being stupid or using a McGuffin

                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    P This user is from outside of this forum
                                    psud@aussie.zone
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #32

                                    D&D 3.5 characters can scale pretty high

                                    D 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • T thegreatdarkness@ttrpg.network

                                      Inspired by frustrating conversation I had. For those curious, that was the statblock of Caine, father of the vampires.

                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #33

                                      No one actually plays dnd like that though…

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      5
                                      • D dragontypewyvern@midwest.social

                                        Beat the campaign by forcing the DM to explain the logistics of how the monsters find their daily calories

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        sirblastalot@ttrpg.network
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #34

                                        A wizard did it.

                                        ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]P 1 Reply Last reply
                                        4
                                        • F fartmaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com

                                          I mean this meme is built for strawmen that’s what it is

                                          Ricky RigatoniR This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Ricky RigatoniR This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Ricky Rigatoni
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #35

                                          And brother, I brought matches.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          7

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