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Wandering Adventure Party

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No, really, I just care about hygiene

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  • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

    How often do pathfinder games do the thing like “The soldiers in the first area attack at +4, but these basically identical soldiers two plot beats later attack at +12, because you’re higher level and I want the math to be challenging”? Because I’ve always disliked that in games. That’s more of a video game trope, but I’ve seen it leak into tabletop games before. I liked the idea of bounded accuracy, and how a goblin is always a goblin. You don’t need to make mega-goblins to fight the higher level party, because even the little ones can still hit and wear you down.

    Endymion_MallornE This user is from outside of this forum
    Endymion_MallornE This user is from outside of this forum
    Endymion_Mallorn
    wrote last edited by
    #52

    That’s down to the GM in any system.

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

      How often do pathfinder games do the thing like “The soldiers in the first area attack at +4, but these basically identical soldiers two plot beats later attack at +12, because you’re higher level and I want the math to be challenging”? Because I’ve always disliked that in games. That’s more of a video game trope, but I’ve seen it leak into tabletop games before. I liked the idea of bounded accuracy, and how a goblin is always a goblin. You don’t need to make mega-goblins to fight the higher level party, because even the little ones can still hit and wear you down.

      D This user is from outside of this forum
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      definitelycodex@ttrpg.network
      wrote last edited by
      #53

      Either you send mega-goblins, or you send MORE goblins.

      A lower level party might fight 3 goblins fair and square, so 4 levels later they confront 6 goblins and 2 lieutenants.

      The idea that the same enemy stays a challenge despite the level increase is actually what I despise in D&D. My character has grown in power, why is the rat from the beginning still able to down me?

      J 1 Reply Last reply
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      • J This user is from outside of this forum
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        jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
        wrote last edited by
        #54

        Ehh, not really. In D&D 3e-like games, a low level goblin that attacks at +4 can barely hit a mid level character with AC 30. You could have a thousand goblins, and they’d only hit on natural 20 (and for regular, non-crit damage).

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • W WarpScanner

          I wish GURPS had taken off more.

          agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksA This user is from outside of this forum
          agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksA This user is from outside of this forum
          agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
          wrote last edited by
          #55

          I’m doing my part

          1 Reply Last reply
          4
          • D dahgangalang@infosec.pub

            I was curious about this some years back.

            Are there any published materials on how to run a game in a GURPS system?

            agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksA This user is from outside of this forum
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            agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
            wrote last edited by agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
            #56

            There’s literally a book called How to be a GURPS GM that’s a pretty good blend of system agnostic and GURPS specific advice. Additionally, Chris Normand has a pretty good Intro to GURPS video series on YouTube

            D 1 Reply Last reply
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            • D definitelycodex@ttrpg.network

              Either you send mega-goblins, or you send MORE goblins.

              A lower level party might fight 3 goblins fair and square, so 4 levels later they confront 6 goblins and 2 lieutenants.

              The idea that the same enemy stays a challenge despite the level increase is actually what I despise in D&D. My character has grown in power, why is the rat from the beginning still able to down me?

              J This user is from outside of this forum
              J This user is from outside of this forum
              jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
              wrote last edited by
              #57

              My character has grown in power, why is the rat from the beginning still able to down me?

              I read an article online somewhere about bounded accuracy, and it brought a question like that as a litmus test for if you like the idea. Should a novice archer, no matter how lucky they are, be able to shoot the ominous black knight? For a scratch? Or a lucky hit in the throat?

              D&D 3e says no. You can only hit them on a natural 20. I think PF2e also says no in the same way.

              D&D 5e tried to say yes, the archer should be able to hit the knight. The knight’s armor is probably ~22, and the archer is rolling at +5, so there’s decent odds. But he certainly won’t be able to kill him, because HP is what scales up with power.

              Other systems are more deadly.

              Personally, I don’t like the “these goblins can’t even touch me anymore” mode that much. I prefer less superhero heroics, where a goblin with a knife can be a real threat

              I D 2 Replies Last reply
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              • Apathy TreeA Apathy Tree

                I’ll play with you.

                Seriously.

                I haven’t before but I’d love to. Last dnd I played was 3.5. I won’t touch anything else, except pathfinder and other non-dnd games.

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                nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                wrote last edited by
                #58

                i do have a group that we’ve been playing since covid lockdowns via roll20 and later foundry and Unfortunately i don’t have blocks of time for more games (i wish i did!). My comment was mostly just aimed at that all local my friends play d&d and don’t want to switch.

                But if you’re looking to play pathfinder2e online there are communities like the pathfinder2e subreddit which has an active discord community. Foundryvtt has a very active pathfinder2e community (but LFG is done through main foundry discord).

                And if you’re not opposed to Organized Play (paizos version of adventurers league) then they have in store and online one-shots you can join. It’s actually how i met my group but we branched off and did our own thing.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

                  How often do pathfinder games do the thing like “The soldiers in the first area attack at +4, but these basically identical soldiers two plot beats later attack at +12, because you’re higher level and I want the math to be challenging”? Because I’ve always disliked that in games. That’s more of a video game trope, but I’ve seen it leak into tabletop games before. I liked the idea of bounded accuracy, and how a goblin is always a goblin. You don’t need to make mega-goblins to fight the higher level party, because even the little ones can still hit and wear you down.

                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                  #59

                  I have never seen that happen in PF2e printed adventures. A lot of the time they use monsters straight out of the Bestiary without modification, and when they don’t they usually put the statblocks in the back of the AP so that they can all be referenced from wherever they need to be.

                  I just pulled down my copy of “The Enmity Cycle” (the closest Paizo adventure I have at hand). It’s a level 4-6 adventure published in 2023. I haven’t read it since shortly after I bought it, but the encounters go like this:

                  • The first encounter is with 4 bandits, and it references the Gamemastery Guide directly for their statblocks (though you can also get them on AoN). There is a note about a change to their favored terrain and what skill they roll for initiative (in PF2e, you can roll different stats for initiative depending on what you’re doing; usually it’s perception, but in this case, the bandits roll their stealth for initiative). It also notes their tactics (they try to threaten the party before attacking, and if you kill or capture two of them, the other two flee). This is standard for any encounter.

                  • The second encounter is with two sand wolves, the stat block for which is printed in the back of the module.

                  • The third encounter is with four gnoll hunters, taken straight from the Bestiary, page 178. If this were a more recent, post-OGL book, it would’ve referenced the Monster Core instead (page 208).

                  Then the party enters a temple (read: dungeon). Here the encounters are themed, but they don’t pull any shenanigans like you mentioned. There are encounters…

                  • with two Scorching Sun Cultists (stat block inline with the adventure, mechanically and visually distinct from previous enemies) and a Filth Fire (Bestiary 2, page 110);

                  • with three cultists (this refers GMs back to the statblock printed above);

                  • with two cultists (again, reference back to the previous page) and a named priest of the cult (who is similar to the cultists, but also has some unique features befitting his position);

                  • with an atajma (an undead cleric monster who honestly looks super cool; reference to Book of the Dead p112, though I can’t find it on AoN for some reason), and two more cultists;

                  • and an elite poltergeist (reference Bestiary, page 264). “Elite” is a template you can use to make a regular poltergeist more scary, so in fairness that is a way that they could do what you’re saying, but they don’t here.

                  That’s the end of chapter one. Characters are supposed to level up around this time. In chapter 2, you fight:

                  • four elite nuglubs;
                  • a named jinkin boss;
                  • elite jinkin mooks;
                  • Usij cultists;
                  • sand wolves;
                  • several Scrapborn;
                  • two Scrapborn with the “weak” template;
                  • a named Ceustodaemon;
                  • a clockwork soldier;
                  • and a named gnoll priestess

                  …in various configurations, both before and in the dungeon. All of the enemies here refer to the same statblocks each time they appear, with the exception of the ones that have the “weak” template (which is like the “elite” template above, but in reverse). The sand wolves are the only repeated monster from chapter one, and they seem to be used as a power level indicator to show how much stronger you are, so they also appear with the same stats.

                  In chapter three there are more sand wolves and more cultists, some new creatures, some creatures that have been seen before, but none of them are reskinned soldiers dealing suspiciously different damage.

                  That was fun, incidentally. Makes me want to run this adventure I bought two years ago. Alas, the enemy of every campaign is the schedule.

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                  • I This user is from outside of this forum
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                    ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #60

                    And as we all know, Nintendo suffered for their terrible decision. /s

                    I mean, yeah, it wasn’t the most consumer-friendly choice. I’m just saying I get why they made it.

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                    • C Cethin

                      I think one of the biggest things, besides not being owned by WOTC, is that it doesn’t have a million exceptions you have to remember.

                      D&D5e: Want to use your bonus action? Cool. Is it for a spell? Have you cast a spell this round? Is it a spell that’s allowed to be cast even if you’ve cast a spell?

                      Pathfinder2e: Do you have enough actions to perform an action? OK, do it.

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                      paradachshund@lemmy.today
                      wrote last edited by
                      #61

                      That does seem nice. One of the many reasons I DM 5e from a “does it make sense” perspective over a rules as written perspective.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

                        I haven’t really played PF2e, but from reading it I don’t really love that it does the “numbers go way up” thing. I did 3e and I didn’t like the “I rolled a 4, but I have a +47 on my check” thing. I’m told PF2e has a “without level bonus” mode, but I don’t know if anyone plays it.

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                        supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                        wrote last edited by
                        #62

                        I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since “becoming a god” is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves 😛

                        But people who want to play in grittier settings do use the proficiency without level rules, and from what I’ve seen all the major third party tools support that option. As a gm, It can be hard to balance for though! The +level to everything mostly serves to give your level 10 cleric a fighting chance on their stealth checks, and without that boost there are some actions some characters just can’t perform.

                        macnielD 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • C Cethin

                          You’re probably right for D&D 5e 2024 (or whatever it’s being called). The main focus was the virtual table top subscription service. As the other commenter says though, this isn’t true for most other systems.

                          Also, I don’t even think it’s necessarily a bad thing. Table top inspired video games. It’s not bad for the influence to flow the other way too. It just needs to be considerate of the format.

                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                          underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #63

                          As the other commenter says though, this isn’t true for most other systems.

                          It was true for 3.5. Nevermind 4e, which was a naked play to shoehorn D&D back into the then-lucrative war-gaming miniatures market.

                          Also, I don’t even think it’s necessarily a bad thing.

                          I don’t think it’s bad either. I just find it’s a design decision that shifts how the game is played.

                          You lose a lot of the more avant guard aspects of table top RPGs in favor of a ridge, easier to export system.

                          C 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • S supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                            I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since “becoming a god” is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves 😛

                            But people who want to play in grittier settings do use the proficiency without level rules, and from what I’ve seen all the major third party tools support that option. As a gm, It can be hard to balance for though! The +level to everything mostly serves to give your level 10 cleric a fighting chance on their stealth checks, and without that boost there are some actions some characters just can’t perform.

                            macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                            macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                            macniel
                            wrote last edited by
                            #64

                            I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since “becoming a god” is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves 😛

                            First you get really really drunk.

                            S 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                              2e did the 5e thing of filing down a table top game to a video game.

                              Doesn’t help that we’ve got metric tons of content in the old system. Why retrofit what didn’t really need fixing? Just give me more APs.

                              KichaeK Offline
                              KichaeK Offline
                              Kichae
                              Forum Master
                              wrote last edited by
                              #65

                              It’s only a TTRPG if you can win it in character creation. Everything else is just sparkling video game.

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                              • macnielD macniel

                                I think the level scaling fits Golarion, since “becoming a god” is a semi realistic goal for someone to set for themselves 😛

                                First you get really really drunk.

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                wrote last edited by
                                #66

                                And then you take the Test of the Starstone. As a joke, of course.

                                macnielD 1 Reply Last reply
                                3
                                • S supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                                  And then you take the Test of the Starstone. As a joke, of course.

                                  macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  macnielD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  macniel
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #67

                                  Accidental ascensions are never the punchline to a joke. 😄

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Apathy TreeA Apathy Tree

                                    I’ll play with you.

                                    Seriously.

                                    I haven’t before but I’d love to. Last dnd I played was 3.5. I won’t touch anything else, except pathfinder and other non-dnd games.

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                                    mambert@beehaw.org
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #68

                                    I’m looking to DM kingmaker on pf2e! Let me know if you’re interested.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • B bartydecanter@lemmy.sdf.org
                                      This post did not contain any content.
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                                      honytawk@lemmy.zip
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #69

                                      Did D&D polymorph into a faucet?

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

                                        My character has grown in power, why is the rat from the beginning still able to down me?

                                        I read an article online somewhere about bounded accuracy, and it brought a question like that as a litmus test for if you like the idea. Should a novice archer, no matter how lucky they are, be able to shoot the ominous black knight? For a scratch? Or a lucky hit in the throat?

                                        D&D 3e says no. You can only hit them on a natural 20. I think PF2e also says no in the same way.

                                        D&D 5e tried to say yes, the archer should be able to hit the knight. The knight’s armor is probably ~22, and the archer is rolling at +5, so there’s decent odds. But he certainly won’t be able to kill him, because HP is what scales up with power.

                                        Other systems are more deadly.

                                        Personally, I don’t like the “these goblins can’t even touch me anymore” mode that much. I prefer less superhero heroics, where a goblin with a knife can be a real threat

                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ilinamorato@lemmy.world
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #70

                                        PF2e tries to have it both ways:

                                        • If you meet or beat the AC, you hit. If you exceed the AC by 10 or more (for example, roll a 25 to hit an AC 15) you crit.

                                        • If you roll under the AC, you miss. If you roll less than 10 under the AC (for example, roll an adjusted 4 to hit an AC 15), you critically miss.

                                        • Rolling a natural 20 increases your level of success by one step (a crit fail becomes a normal fail, a fail becomes a success, a success becomes a critical hit).

                                        • Rolling a natural 1 decreases your level of success by one step (a crit becomes a normal hit, a hit becomes a miss, a miss becomes a crit fail).

                                        In most encounters that are properly balanced for the players, a natural 20 and a natural 1 function like they do in D&D.

                                        But when you’re out of the proper range of balanced encounters, you start to get into the really fun territory, where threats feel more epic. Can a novice archer shoot the ominous black knight? Maybe! Maybe not, and even rolling a natural 20 merely upgrades their crit miss to a regular miss. Uh oh. That means it’s time to run.

                                        Maybe, if you work together with your party and stack on enough buffs and aids as you can manage, you can eke out a normal hit on an otherwise impossible enemy. That makes it even more exciting, because then you have a very remote chance to actually crit as well! Any +1 you get from any source increases your chance to hit by 5%, but it also increases your chance to crit by 5%. That means that a goblin with a dagger is a real threat, especially if he has friends, because you might be able to hit his buddies with a 4 on the die, but he could definitely work together with his friends to get a crit on you. And if he has a dagger with runes on it, or poison, or something like that, your day just got really bad.

                                        Your mileage may vary if that works for you or not, but it works for me. I think it’s a pretty elegant system.

                                        J 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                                          As the other commenter says though, this isn’t true for most other systems.

                                          It was true for 3.5. Nevermind 4e, which was a naked play to shoehorn D&D back into the then-lucrative war-gaming miniatures market.

                                          Also, I don’t even think it’s necessarily a bad thing.

                                          I don’t think it’s bad either. I just find it’s a design decision that shifts how the game is played.

                                          You lose a lot of the more avant guard aspects of table top RPGs in favor of a ridge, easier to export system.

                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          Cethin
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #71

                                          D&D is one system.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          1

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