but they punish the poor the most

They punish people who speed the most. If you make the needle on your dash point to the number that is posted on the road signs, you don’t get a ticket.

It may actually be a net positive in job creation between the installation, maintaince, and bureaucratic stuff.

Fun thing about design changes, the motorists get less frustrated.

A big part of our frustration whole driving is that (at least in Ontario) design speed MUST be at least 20kph higher than posted speed.

So yeah, you get frustrated doing 30kph on a road designed for 60kph. You get less frustrated on a road with no posted limits anywhere that jsut naturally nakes you want to drive a speed that feels safe, and happens to be 30kph.

There are more design choices than just roundabouts…

There are more design choices than just roundabouts…

Do I have to list every single one for you to get the point?

I’m sure the city loves these cameras. Did you speed? Doesn’t matter, the camera says you did so pay up. Also these will ticket you for going even half a kilometer over, you can get a ticket for going 71 in a 70 where a human cop would just let that shit go

Both is good, because the way our streets are designed are both dangerous and expensive. Narrowing that 40 zone by the school can remove excess road space that now doesn’t need to be maintained, cleaned, plowed, or salted. The excess space could be used by school, have trees planted, or be used for alternative transport like transit or bikes.

The roads are currently designed to prioritize driver throughput and provide “wiggle room” for driver error, often at the expense of people outside of the vehicle. Many of the concepts that engineers use to make highways safe were applied to city streets, which in hindsight maybe we don’t want our city streets to be designed like highways.

I’ve gotten a ticket for going 1 over on a downhill. If you think that’s reasonable, you’re likely one of the idiots who created these things.

Citation needed. They don’t set them at 1 over because it’s hard to prove they are that accurate, your speedo also only has to be +/-3% in Ontario.

The problem is that people are AWFUL at evaluating their own risk when driving, and drive at speeds that ARENT safe. Look at how few people leave appropruate stopping distances between vehicles, which is the #1 factor in preventing accidents.

The methods you proposed would likely decrease the speed vehicles travel at (ie from 80 to 60) because drivers feel like they can’t travel at that speed, but the road likely still isn’t safe for vehicles to travel at 60 when its that narrow.

Speed cameras catch everyone speeding, 24/7, and are the single best, economical, way to eliminate speeding from a road. Cop can’t pull over every vehicle going 80 on a 4 lane road rated for 60, but the camera can ticket them all.

For sure, promote a narrower road, encourage MUP over sidewalks, and encourage safer driving when you talk to your councilors, but road reconstruction happens, generally, once every 25-50yrs. We can’t wait for that timeframe to fix these problems.

Bigger problem is people are bad judges of risk while driving. People’s perception of how fast they can safely travel doesnt line up with their actual abilities.

Roads are built with a design speed 20kph higher than the posted limit because that’s the margin left for safety. That covers things like balding tires, like a distracted driver not paying attention, or bad weather.

There can be some changes (ie the number of municipalities that insist on a 4m wide lane is RIDICULOUS for residential roads), but the vast majority of the factors that make it “safe” to drive that speed are there for a reason.

There will always be new people that speed. And people not knowing the place that speed.

… Where a human cop would light you up, slowing down all the traffic around you to safer levels, and give you immediate feedback.

But no you’ll just get the same ticket for 10 over 5 days in a row before you notice the camera, and then get 5 tickets in the mail a month later.

Have you considered installing the roundabouts anyway and removing the driving licences of those incapable of manoeuvring around a simple roundabout?

Driving is not a right. If they can’t perform simple manoeuvres without endangering others, they shouldn’t be controlling a machine that can easily accidentally kill.

It doesn’t help if this was a long time ago, but you could contest the ticket with the information you gathered.

I know someone who got a ticket but the sign was obscured by a tree branch. After contesting the ticket, the ticket was dropped and the signage was fixed

I agree. My point is the problem is bad drivers are bad drivers so roundabouts, etc are a waste and won’t do anything to solve the issue.

You get less frustrated on a road with no posted limits anywhere that jsut naturally nakes you want to drive a speed that feels safe, and happens to be 30kph.

Nah, I don’t believe that’s what happens, because we’ve had so many single vehicle crashes because people have no idea what feels safe. They drive like they’re behind a screen, like a video game. Except that screen is a windshield and their face can go through it.

Someone going 100km/h in a 40 zone is an asshole who has no regard for human life. No road design will make them care, and the solution to that problem is to not allow certain people to drive.

Equip vehicles with behaviour sensing tech, and if someone is routinely driving aggressively, not stopping when they should, speeding, and parking in areas that put others in danger, they should lose their license.

No, but $100+ to a poor person could be the difference between literal life and death.

Sure, but nobody is compelling someone to break traffic laws. Someone who can’t afford a fine will probably drive way more cautiously.

But very few poor people can even afford a car these days, so this doesn’t seem like a real concern.

The solution to this is sliding scale fines. The better off you are the more you get fined.

I do agree with that. And more than that, the consequences should include lost time. Imagine some rich asshole who has to do 40 hours of community service. They’d look like a total ass in front of their boss or employees.

Our cameras directly benefit the community, so people who destroy them here are criminals with no redeeming justification.

Surely with Toronto Police Services’ budget they could better protect speed cameras if they wanted to