I would argue this time Carney’s comment is a worthless plattitude. You can sign anything and claim it was the best deal for Canada.

What does a good deal for Canada look like to you?

There is no deal to be had with Trump. He is a bad faith actor not bound by honour, credibility, a supreme court, the rule of law or Congress.

There is literally no point in negotiating anything. Whatever agreement that is signed, won’t be honored.

I have to agree. What’s the point of “negotiating” with a criminal fraudster? He literally changes his mind more than he changes his underwear. There is no “deal” or “contract” or “agreement” with him.

“The Government of Canada will not accept a bad deal,” Carney said in French in Huntsville, Ont., Tuesday. “Our objective is not to reach a deal whatever it costs. We are pursuing a deal that will be in the best interest of Canadians.”

When it comes to the prospect of reaching a deal, Carney said “we’ll see” and that “complex negotiations” continue. He said if there isn’t a deal that works for Canada, his government will “take stock” and consider what to do next.

This doesn’t sound like what you are describing, and seems firm considering how dangerous of a situation this is.

“I’ve had over 80 bilaterals with world leaders since I became prime minister. A number of the premiers have been on major trade missions. We have other things to do,” he said.

This sounds like the Government has other plans for when Trump talks fall through. Which has been being worked on over the last few months. From trade to arms procurement there is a lot of diversification efforts happening across governments.

There is a lot going on and the focus doesn’t really seem to be getting something from the US anytime soon.

With the US? It has nothing to do with Canada and everything to do with the US honouring a deal, let alone a fair one based on reciprocity and mutual benefit.

Trump is a bad faith actor who is bound by no court, no law or Congress. There is no deal to be had. He won’t honour anything. We are wasting our time.

All we can do is reciprocate. They want Tarrifs, let’s fucking GOOOOOOO! Wherever it hurts. Oil, energy, materials and critical resources. In equal measure to what they do to us. We must undo the 35 years of NAFTA integration and stand on our own two feet.

The question was what has Carney done (or not done) that he said he would (or would not) do.

He was elected on a strong, elbows up approach. So far, he has capitulated on the DST without us seeing any gain or concessions from that. And no, returning to the bargaining table does not count.

Not suspended the DST pending an agreement, but rescinded fully. My point is that he has not taken the firm stance I expected of him.

I agree - given that trump was the one who made the last round of NAFTA (aka the USMCA cuz god forbid the US isn’t the first in the title), which he has now torn up, there is no reason to expect him to honour any agreement we make now.

I’d prefer to not jump right into a pissing match with an enormous economy like the US, but I think we can stand firm on what we let them push us to do. I’d like to see any tariffs we do apply directly solely to small businesses which can shoe a demonstrable loss in revenue due to the tariffs, but given Carney/lib history, I’m guessing it’ll be gobbled up by larger corps instead.

Time will tell how his capitulation on the DST goes, but so far I’m not impressed.

Now maybe there’s more going on behind the scenes,

It would be naive to think there isn’t.

What do you expect him to do, as in, what does a “firm stance” look like to you?

There is literally no point in negotiating anything.

While Trump is involved, part of the point of continued “negotiating” is to try and prevent him from doing anything massively damaging while “negotiations are still in progress”.

The craziest thing about US trade is that Donald John Trump is in the Epstein files.

Hopefully the DST comes back next week!

Not suspended the DST pending an agreement, but rescinded fully

Its not hard to say “were willing to play ball, provided this leads to an agreement”.

I’m not opposed to dropping the DST, I’m opposed to dropping it rather than suspending it so trump will come talk at the table.

Trump says “No further negotiations if the DST goes through”

I am asking you specifically, what does a firm stance look like to you in that situation?

What are the consequences of that stance?

I don’t know how to be clearer for you.

A hard stance looks like this:

"Canada values its strong partnership with the United States and acknowledges the concerns raised over our proposed DST. In a show of good faith and commitment to reaching a balanced trade agreement, we are suspending the DST indefinitely.

However, if a mutually acceptable agreement cannot be reached, Canada reserves the right to implement the measure as planned. Our goal remains a fair and forward-looking solution that supports a level playing field for all."

Thus we reached trumps goal - DST doesn’t move forward or go through. It stays exactly where it is, but its not a concession for nothing, and makes it clear that the DST remains part of the negotiations.

What information do you have that says we won’t institute the DST in the future if no deal is reached?

What proof you have he will? He has given no indication of it, and it is currently canceled.

He has given no indication of it, and it is currently canceled.

“To support those negotiations, the Minister of Finance and National Revenue, the Honourable François-Philippe Champagne, announced today that Canada would rescind the Digital Services Tax (DST) in anticipation of a mutually beneficial comprehensive trade arrangement with the United States.”

Canada rescinds digital services tax to advance broader trade negotiations with the United States - Canada.ca

The DST was announced in 2020 to address the fact that many large technology companies operating in Canada may not otherwise pay tax on revenues generated from Canadians. Canada’s preference has always been a multilateral agreement related to digital services taxation. While Canada was working with international partners, including the United States, on a multilateral agreement that would replace national digital services taxes, the DST was enacted to address the aforementioned taxation gap.

(www.canada.ca)

Seems that the rescinding of this legislation is tied to a “mutually beneficial and comprehensive trade arrangement” demonstrating that the DST is not currently completely off the table. In fact, the legislation to rescind it hasn’t been tabled yet.

“The June 30, 2025 collection will be halted, and Minister Champagne will soon bring forward legislation to rescind the Digital Services Tax Act.”

What information do you have that says we won’t institute the DST in the future if no deal is reached?