Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
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In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
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A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
When you get right down to it, the lack of teleport booths is the problem. People see time spent in transit between A and B as time wasted, so the natural instict is to try to shorten it at any cost. As usual, this is modified by the tendency for humans to have really poor risk-assessment abilities.
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I don’t. All tools can be abused.
Perhaps, but it’s much harder to abuse a speed bump for nefarious purposes.
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Roundabouts are awesome. People are still idiots however.
I think you just have to commit to it. It’s only a problem when people are unfamiliar with them. Once They’re exposed enough, they’ll get the hang of em pretty quickly. They just need to be fairly ubiquitous.
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OK, so what’s the argument against using other traffic calming measures that don’t steal money from people, and are just as, if not more, effective instead?
When it’s the government, it’s not considered stealing.
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
…
In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
…
A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
Of all the fucked up technologies police forces and governments are using, many of which have terrifying abuse potential, this is the one people complain about.
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I think you just have to commit to it. It’s only a problem when people are unfamiliar with them. Once They’re exposed enough, they’ll get the hang of em pretty quickly. They just need to be fairly ubiquitous.
We have a lot of them where I live now. They keep them single lane in most places. This is good. There is one major 4 lane and it’s a nightmare most days. Been in place for over 50 years and most still don’t understand it.
I still think they’re great and effective as well.
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Cameras at traffic lights
…cause far more rear-enders than people squeezing the light. It’s a different story: more cash grab than even speed cams, with negative goal achievement.
Oh wait. Even speed cameras aren’t the boon as advertised:
(Not a great source, but that’s a money quote)
Abso-fucking-lutely. Speed cameras fix nothing, least of all at the time of speeding. No demerits, no suspensions, just another bill to pay like parking tickets. And if they figure out where the speed camera is, it’s good for about 100m of coverage.
I’ve never seen so many unjustified justice boners as !Canada@lemmy.ca over radar cameras.
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I don’t. All tools can be abused.
How is a municipal government or authorities going to abuse speed bumps, narrow streets, or other physical deterrents for speeding compared to electronic devices, pray tell?
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Lane width restriction is my preferred method, but speed bumps are probably even more guaranteed to be effective.
Lane width restrictions only slow down bad and nervous drivers.
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
…
In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
…
A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
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How is a municipal government or authorities going to abuse speed bumps, narrow streets, or other physical deterrents for speeding compared to electronic devices, pray tell?
? You’ve never seen a cop park right over a little dip in the road at the bottom of a hill right where the limit changes?
I’ve never seen stupider argument than I have with these speed camera debates. Read the speed limit sign, look at your speed, follow that speed. I’d prefer your careless ass get a ticket in the mail from a camera than pay a dumb cop to sit there all day letting his buddies and “important” people go while giving everyone else a hard time.
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Except then everyone has to suffer for the stupidity of few, and emergency vehicles can’t got faster in an emergency…
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Of all the fucked up technologies police forces and governments are using, many of which have terrifying abuse potential, this is the one people complain about.
It’s wedge issues like this that cause enough distraction to allow increased surveillance and authoritarianism of the general public. That’s the police biz.
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They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
Part of the problem is that roadway rule enforcement is seen as the police’s problem and the police’s budget, which is probably why they were getting the revenue from the cameras in the first place.
The portion of police budgets that goes to traffic control, responding to accidents, doing radar, and issuing tickets should be considered part of the roadway budget. How we design, fund, maintain roadways and their alternatives directly impacts the funding needed to enforce roadway rules and respond to roadway accidents. It doesn’t seem fair for speed enforcement not to be considered while designing the road then just dump that problem onto the police budget.
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? You’ve never seen a cop park right over a little dip in the road at the bottom of a hill right where the limit changes?
I’ve never seen stupider argument than I have with these speed camera debates. Read the speed limit sign, look at your speed, follow that speed. I’d prefer your careless ass get a ticket in the mail from a camera than pay a dumb cop to sit there all day letting his buddies and “important” people go while giving everyone else a hard time.
Hey, don’t get mad at me. I follow the speed limit. I follow the damn rules.
The problem is when the authorities start accusing law abiding people for extra money and to reach their quota.
Point your anger at the real problem.
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Part of the problem is that roadway rule enforcement is seen as the police’s problem and the police’s budget, which is probably why they were getting the revenue from the cameras in the first place.
The portion of police budgets that goes to traffic control, responding to accidents, doing radar, and issuing tickets should be considered part of the roadway budget. How we design, fund, maintain roadways and their alternatives directly impacts the funding needed to enforce roadway rules and respond to roadway accidents. It doesn’t seem fair for speed enforcement not to be considered while designing the road then just dump that problem onto the police budget.
Excellent point. There are so many critical errors in how our society operates. It gets overwhelming sometimes with how far necessary reform reaches into things we all take for granted.
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Hey, don’t get mad at me. I follow the speed limit. I follow the damn rules.
The problem is when the authorities start accusing law abiding people for extra money and to reach their quota.
Point your anger at the real problem.
Forgive me if you thought I was pointing at you specifically. I’m pointing at idiots who make all these stupid and childish arguments, in this thread, but in every Lemmy post about speed cameras.
The real problem is people incapable of adhering to societal rules. The real problem is children in adult clothes getting mad when they actually get in trouble for breaking rules. “Oh why dont they just redesign the whole town to make that impossible?!?! What if someone hacks the speed camera and gives innocent people a ticket!!!Why must I read and obey the speed limit??? Oh the injustice!”
Speed cameras are inexpensive, they are not prejudiced, and they work. They cause no trouble to anyone obeying the limit and send a ticket to those who do. To everyone who also argues about fines being legal for the rich, yeah, that’s bullshit. Solve THAT problem. I’m all for it.
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They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
The revenues should have never gone to the police in the first place, they should go into redesigning and rebuilding problematic stroads so the cameras become unnecessary over time while other new permanent features of the road like speedbumps, curves, narrowing, and other traffic calming changes will enforce the speed limits passively.
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Like what, specifically?
Trees, removing excess lane space, avoiding long straight stretches (ideally with street layout, but also chicanes), etcetera. If a road feels like a residential road, people treat it like one. And vice versa, if a road feels like a highway…
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
…
In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
…
A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
Typical argument for someone who’s never lived in a place with speed cameras. The cameras themselves, sure, they’re fine.
They start getting people going 10-over, but people adjust their habits accordingly, revenue drops, now they target people going 2 over.
Next they target people in school zones. All well and good. But we need to increase revenue. Parks are now school zones. Trails near the roads are now school zones. And now we’re expanding the zone times from 6am-9pm. Love my 36 in a 30 along a 60 road at 2047pm ticket. GREAT.
Finally, after people get used to all the above they start messing with the limits themselves. 6 lane roads, down to 40… but not the entire thing. lets have a road that went through town from 110-90-60-90-110 turn into 110-50-90-60-70-30-40-70-50-90-60-90-110-50-110. in 8km, speed cameras at every reduction! [Calgary 16th ave] Miss a zone and you’re screwed.
But that’s not enough. We need to grow revenue. Lets have forward facing cameras implimented too, and take points. That way our friends in insurance can benefit too. They will even pay a bounty for each person caught.
The same goes for red lights - see the winnipeg 0.5second yellow light camera scandal.
