Thanks for the link. I will definitely do a deeper dive.

ew didnt need to hear that.

I like how you know that some classes are too big to manage. You list several considerations a teacher may use to determine what is and isn’t a manageable class size. Then you turn around and use that to argue AGAINST class size limits.

You apparently oppose any class size limit because “it doesn’t perfectly resolve every situation”, leaving the teachers with no class size limits and no tools to resolve the very real issue of managing large class sizes.

This is a perfect encapsulation of conservative logic.

1.You see a problem you agree is real 2. You see someone’s proposed imperfect solution to the problem which certainly would shrink the size of the problem but not perfectly solve it. 3. You oppose the solution because although it would shrink the size of the problem, it’s imperfect and doesn’t solve the whole thing all at once. 4. You don’t propose or support any replacement. 5. The problem continues to grow unresolved, and you’re satisfied having done a good job stopping any kind of progress whatsoever.

Where did I say I disagreed with class size limits? My entire post was about how its not a simple thing to measure. You’ve jumped to a conclusion and then put a whole lot more assumptions on me and on “conservatives”.

They said this strike was about class size limits and you said the problem is too complicated for simple class size limits, disagreeing with the union position.

Do you really think the teachers asking for class size limits don’t understand the nuance you pointed out? Do you think you’re the only one who understands the complexity of the situation. And yet they’re all asking for class size limits anyways, because although it’s imperfect it’s better than the current approach.

I don’t see where you’re confused. When you respond against a statement you’re disagreeing with it, as I’m disagreeing with you. Stop pretending context doesn’t matter and each of your statements should be taken and debated independently. That’s nonsense!

they give them breaks on their own taxes and royalties.

Even easier then. Get them to pay their fair share.

The rest of your post I chalk up to oil&gas propaganda. Alberta’s economy would not need Oil and Gas to stay afloat if they hadn’t been institutionally captured by these climate killing ghouls and had diversified their economy. Like honestly, this is just Big Tobacco but worse, because they are not polluting just lungs, but the entire planetary biosphere, and you’re going to seriously make that argument? They are evil psychopaths, just like Big Tobacco, profiting off of the death and misery of others.

And there is no reason whatsoever that it should be so. Alberta has a fantastic geography for renewables. What Quebec is for hydroelectricity they could be for wind and solar. But instead they keep licking psycho boot. Fuck that. Pay your god damn teachers.

Narrator: those issues weren’t ultimately addressed.

Geez, I thought picturing that was horrific. Now I’m imagining there’s something to hear as well.

CAN we flag any posts from that newspaper as spam? It would be great, but is that appropriate?

Just walk off the job.

If they don’t want unions, they get people who quit when the contract is over and they get to re-staff every time.

People don’t stay at union-wage jobs because they like being paid less. Remove the perqs and learn something new.

no that’s called censorship

Do you really think the teachers asking for class size limits don’t understand the nuance you pointed out? Do you think you’re the only one who understands the complexity of the situation.

It’s weird, because the experts in the situation - highly-educated people with experience teaching classes - are right there in case you want to ask.

My sister-in-law left Canada because she wanted to teach but couldn’t afford it here. She’s retiring in Sweden soon as a full citizen with a family and great plans.

(Imagine a decent wage and a good retirement, but also in a country where things mostly still work and make sense)

Well, those “ghouls” (seriously?) not only keep AB afloat, they make enough money so that we dont have to pay sales tax, which is a huge benefit to all Albertans. You only have to travel to other provinces to realize there is a MASSIVE difference to your wallet when you’re only paying 5% GST instead of an additional 7 to 10% PST on top. That literally makes my life better every single day.

Secondly, those “ghouls” (eye roll) also provide a LOT of very well paying jobs in AB which is why we are a have province instead of a have not province with the highest per capita incomes (over $96,400) in Canada. I dont work in O and G directly but my son in laws do, and the people who use my services do, so O and G very directly enhances the lives of my family. Solar/wind/other powers are nice but they dont provide great incomes.

Thirdly I absolutely reject the whole ‘climate killing’ virtual signalling of those who decry O and G because I know that Canada only emits 1.5% of the worlds GHG’s and the hypocrites who point a finger at O and G would not consider actually taking action against the 98.5% emitters, specifically China and the US. Have you stopped buying goods from China? Have you stopped traveling to the US or buying any goods from the US til they clean up their act? If you have, great, but 99% of Canadians haven’t and they dont actually give a crap, they just like to point fingers at O and G and yell about the ‘climate’.

Its far easier to point the finger at the thimble of pollution coming from Canada than it is to actually do something concrete about the shiploads and truckloads of pollution coming from the places where you cause it by buying all their goods. Take the plank out of your own eye and I’ll take your argument seriously.

I was explaining the issue for the NON educators here my friend. Im an ex teacher and a retired principal. My son is a principal. My wife is a teacher. Two of my daughter in laws are teachers. My father was a teacher. I GET IT.

I was trying to explain the complexity of the situation for those who’ve never been in a classroom and don’t understand that you can’t just say “Cap class sizes” and be done with it because it’s not that simple.

I read what the ATA was proposing about class sizes and it was quite logical and reasonable in my opinion and they did propose doing it over time in a graduated way, so I’m not sure why the gov pushed back so hard, still trying to research the arguments on both sides.

Just wanted to throw out there that class size and complexity matters a lot.

I taught in an Alberta public high school. I had a class of 47 students. And this was a split Math 20-3/20-4 class. Over ⅓ of the class had IEPs, and another ⅓ (at least) should have had IEPs, but they’d fallen through the cracks of the system and didn’t have paperwork on file to support a designation.

20-3 and 20-4 have virtually 0 curricular overlap, btw. I feel badly for the -4 kiddos in that class—they got almost no attention from me. It just wasn’t possible. The one EA in the class did what she could to help them, thankfully.

I got reprimanded by my admin for that class, too, since a lowkey fight broke out (nobody was hurt) in that class and I didn’t notice for about half a minute.

I left the province and haven’t regretted it for a second.

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She tries to frame the classroom size issue as a teacher safety issue. It’s not. It’s a quality of learning issue, which is not in the conservative vocabulary.

They simply do not negotiate. They don’t know how to.

I don’t disagree, but one thing is back to work legislation and quite another to kill collective bargainng altogether and impose a contract unilaterally invoking the notwithstanding clause.

No, they get people who are willing to work for less and in worse conditions in the jobs the teachers are quitting. It’s exactly what they want.