Canada’s tariff wall on Chinese electric vehicles is deepening dependence on the U.S.
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Yeah, good job at not-debating.
He did not say he was not here to judge
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we are never going to build our own ev industry in time for it make any difference, the only places doing it are incredibly niche small companies making “kei trucks” and buses for public transit, or parts and assembly for foreign companies. and it would take decades for us to achieve a similar quality product that china has right now, if ever, and never at an affordable price in comparison.
the reason everyone isnt driving electric is because we dont have the availability, infrastructure, and pricing that makes it worthwhile.
we can 100% still make batteries and offer alternate solutions with said batteries rather than using them to create our “own ev line” we could make drop in battery/motor conversion kits for instance. for bikes, cars, trucks, buses, whatever you can imagine.
also we could use them to create and maintain municipal public transit, like torontos/vancouvers rental ebikes, except not privately owned. buses are already being converted as well. (looking at you winnipeg)
having locally made batteries will never not be valuable. having additional options and RnD cant hurt.
realistically speaking. theres zero chance we will be able to ever offer a more affordable and similar quality all canadian EV vehicle line up in the next several decades. thats a pipe dream.
but batteries, and the stuff to make them, will only go up in demand. and its possible that domestic batteries some day might be cheaper, if we play our cards right.
We chose to allow the US to dictate our EV production and gave the emerging market to China. We don’t get the last 20 years back for a do over. Import Chinese cars, decrease dependency on the US. Return to selling our soybeans and whatever else to China.
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“No one has firm plans to make EVs in Canada” - Not true, Canada had and still has Lion Electric for example. All Canadian schools should get their buses there. It’s a great place for adoption to start. They also had/have trucks. Lack of support from Canada is shameful.
Lion Electric is broke, stock is at one cent.
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Once cheap imported EVs is sold in Canada, there’s no way for Canada to build its own EV industry, which would remove the demand for batteries to be made in Canada
Which is why the Chinese government wants to dump it’s cars here.
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we are never going to build our own ev industry in time for it make any difference, the only places doing it are incredibly niche small companies making “kei trucks” and buses for public transit, or parts and assembly for foreign companies. and it would take decades for us to achieve a similar quality product that china has right now, if ever, and never at an affordable price in comparison.
the reason everyone isnt driving electric is because we dont have the availability, infrastructure, and pricing that makes it worthwhile.
we can 100% still make batteries and offer alternate solutions with said batteries rather than using them to create our “own ev line” we could make drop in battery/motor conversion kits for instance. for bikes, cars, trucks, buses, whatever you can imagine.
also we could use them to create and maintain municipal public transit, like torontos/vancouvers rental ebikes, except not privately owned. buses are already being converted as well. (looking at you winnipeg)
having locally made batteries will never not be valuable. having additional options and RnD cant hurt.
realistically speaking. theres zero chance we will be able to ever offer a more affordable and similar quality all canadian EV vehicle line up in the next several decades. thats a pipe dream.
but batteries, and the stuff to make them, will only go up in demand. and its possible that domestic batteries some day might be cheaper, if we play our cards right.
The actual reason is that EVs are shit in cold weather. That’s not going to change.
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Canada does not have the technical knowledge to build EVs.
It’s true that we have expertise in machining. We do have cheaper metal sources, and lithium and rare earth resources that could be used to leverage Chinese automation for batteries, motors, gigapresses, and then use Canadian assembly workers to finish the cars.
The future is about engineering and design, and Canadian sustainability means avoiding anchoring ourselves to dead ender energy and processes.
Ford was saying yesterday “We need to protect the $46B government has invested in EV transition”. First, that is an absurd subsidy level, but to your point, it was always meant as a grift, because “real Canadians” don’t know how to make EVs.
With Chinese (or any other if they are volunteering) investment, in long term, it is technology transfer to Canadians. We’re too stupid to do anything disruptive/progressive is the path to staying stupid and falling behind.
We have zero IP on battery technology. All the factories Trudeau was funding were for outdated tech.
This country spends the lowest of the G8 on R&D and we have nothing to develop as a result of that.
So we invested $46B on corporate welfare on EV factories but you are LUCKY if NSERC will give you enough money for battery research to fund a single student.
This is a chronic problem of Canada and the reason why we constantly lose any edge in tech industry.
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Canada does not have the technical knowledge to build EVs. We make trucks with 1960s technology, or assemble vehicles designed in Japan. There is no point in making EVs in Canada when sales are barely 6%. The problem here is not manufacturers, it’s Canadian men who define their masculinity by the size of truck they buy, and then politicians who subsidize fuel for them.
Hah…pissed off 14 microdicks in their F150s.
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Why does Canada tariff them? Do they have domestic production they are protecting?
Canada assembles vehicle for Detroit and Japan. About 400,000 direct and indirect jobs, mostly in Ontario.
I have no idea why we bother to tariff EVs when they barely crack 7 percent in sales and at best may see 25 percent.
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Fuck china and their spy hardware on wheels.
Have you looked at the privacy violation that is north american vehicles?
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I’ve just read through this exchange between mavvik@lemmy.ca and yourself. It is rather humorous the assumptions being made.
You’ve said you live minutes from the grocers, then go on to change the argument stating you’d be riding hours a day more than you could drive. Comparing an apple to an orchard is a touch disingenuous. You are right in that it’s arduous to do a big shop on a bike. But when living within a stone’s throw of the most commonly visited store, you just go every few days instead of twice a month. Being so close, it’s hardly a more time consuming venture.
It’s all good though, you keep driving. Honestly this post is a poor place to try and get people interested in replacing car trips with bike trips. Though when it comes to a “waste of time”, it does bring to mind the difference in life expectancy between the inner city driver and bicyclist.
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This comment went much longer than I expected, and in general I don’t think it useful to beat anyone over the head about riding a bike. Doubly so on a post than ostensibly has nothing to do with bike riding.
::: spoiler Enjoy the read.
It’s always a fun read to see groceries as the prime excuse for taking the car. Is the trolley used for the initial collection of the foods closer in size to a car than it is a bicycle? Perhaps a Smart ForTwo.
Oulu, in Finland, has the same population density as London, Ontario. Three quarters of the population in Oulu rides a bike on a regular basis, with a quarter of all trips being by bicycle. About 40% ride through the winter, even though Oulu is consistently colder than Toronto through the entire winter. Just about every child rides their bike to school all year round. If an elementary student in Finland can do it, a grown adult in Canada certainly can.
Despite worse conditions in winter, Oulu citizens (Oluans?) cycle circles around Canadians. The reason is pretty straight forward. Oulu has more dedicated cycling pathway than Ontario has Highway 401, at nearly 1,000 kilometres. More importantly, Oulu has its most frequented cycle pathways plowed inside 3 hours of a 2cm snowfall with a guarantee that snow won’t accumulate more than 4cm. In comparison, Toronto doesn’t even start plowing their roads until 5cm of snowfall.
When the infrastructure is in place, and the snow is properly managed, people can go about their day just as they would otherwise. Oulu does snow management so well, people there don’t even use studded bicycle tires.
“When your only exposure to winter is the walk across the parking lot to your car, you never get used to the weather, and you get an exaggerated sense of how cold it gets.” - some guy
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I’ve just read through this exchange between mavvik@lemmy.ca and yourself. It is rather humorous the assumptions being made.
You’ve said you live minutes from the grocers, then go on to change the argument stating you’d be riding hours a day more than you could drive. Comparing an apple to an orchard is a touch disingenuous. You are right in that it’s arduous to do a big shop on a bike. But when living within a stone’s throw of the most commonly visited store, you just go every few days instead of twice a month. Being so close, it’s hardly a more time consuming venture.
It’s all good though, you keep driving. Honestly this post is a poor place to try and get people interested in replacing car trips with bike trips. Though when it comes to a “waste of time”, it does bring to mind the difference in life expectancy between the inner city driver and bicyclist.
You’ve said you live minutes from the grocers, then go on to change the argument stating you’d be riding hours a day more than you could drive.
The grocers are not the only place I go. Today I actually spent two hours driving to and from a roleplaying game I play with a group of friends, for example. I give a lift for one of them, and pick up food for the rest on the way there. This would have been impossible on a bike.
But when living within a stone’s throw of the most commonly visited store, you just go every few days instead of twice a month.
You’re being rather free with adding a bunch of things to my schedule, aren’t you? How do you know I have time to do a grocery trip every few days? Once again, I have more things going on in my life than travelling to and from a grocery store.
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The actual reason is that EVs are shit in cold weather. That’s not going to change.
recently they just just released a new standard for sodium ion batteries that operate normally at -40c
so its already changing. also they are like $10 kwh, they are making them in series with lithium ion for range, sodium ion for extreme temps, +/-.
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We chose to allow the US to dictate our EV production and gave the emerging market to China. We don’t get the last 20 years back for a do over. Import Chinese cars, decrease dependency on the US. Return to selling our soybeans and whatever else to China.
im with ya there. if they really care about getting everyone into EVs to “save the planet” or whatever. it shouldnt matter where we get them from, or how cheaply. we are already quite fucked climate wise, so letting us have a cheap ev for the apocolypse is the least they can do lol.
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Yes. With snow tires.
did not know that was possible
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There’s no malice here. I wasn’t saying you specifically should be making smaller and more frequent stops at the grocery. I was only meaning that’s how it’s done when not getting such a large quantity of food at once.
Your example of picking up a friend is perfectly valid. That takes a more specific bike set up than something standard with a rack on the back - at least to do comfortably. Beyond teenage years, I don’t see people doubling up on handlebars anymore. That said, there are many ‘off the shelf’ solutions available for transporting both a shopping trolley worth of groceries and an additional person across a city. Saying something is ‘impossible’ is a little short sighted.
I’m sure driving about works just fine for your lifestyle specifically. For myself, it takes longer to drive across my city than to ride to the same destination. I wasn’t trying to talk you into trading your car for a bike. I was only making a suggestion about the most common trip people take in case you hadn’t thought of it.
I don’t mean this rudely, but it’s not as though you and I know one another personally. I have no vested interest in what you do. I was just chiming in to share an alternative perspective. After all, isn’t variety is the spice of life?
Cheers
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The actual reason is that EVs are shit in cold weather. That’s not going to change.
Weird. My EV works perfectly fine ne in cold weather. Thanks for the info tho Elmer FUD.
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There’s no malice here. I wasn’t saying you specifically should be making smaller and more frequent stops at the grocery. I was only meaning that’s how it’s done when not getting such a large quantity of food at once.
Your example of picking up a friend is perfectly valid. That takes a more specific bike set up than something standard with a rack on the back - at least to do comfortably. Beyond teenage years, I don’t see people doubling up on handlebars anymore. That said, there are many ‘off the shelf’ solutions available for transporting both a shopping trolley worth of groceries and an additional person across a city. Saying something is ‘impossible’ is a little short sighted.
I’m sure driving about works just fine for your lifestyle specifically. For myself, it takes longer to drive across my city than to ride to the same destination. I wasn’t trying to talk you into trading your car for a bike. I was only making a suggestion about the most common trip people take in case you hadn’t thought of it.
I don’t mean this rudely, but it’s not as though you and I know one another personally. I have no vested interest in what you do. I was just chiming in to share an alternative perspective. After all, isn’t variety is the spice of life?
Cheers
I wasn’t saying you specifically should be making smaller and more frequent stops at the grocery.
You said exactly that. You also said I was being disingenuous.
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Chinese EVs are very bad for Canadian national security. China cannot be trusted and is actively antagonistic to Canadian interests. The fact that any Canadian would want Chinese EVs on our streets and in our garages is a complete mystery to me.
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did not know that was possible
Honestly a massive game changer if one uses a bike for transportation.
