A major airline is going to make you pay to recline your seat
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
are you in a “paid for oxygen row” or a “hold your breath” row ?
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I’m actually fine with them removing ALL seat reclining options.
The tiny angle it goes back is not worth have the idiot ahead of you firback the seat while you are eating
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Pamphlets and brochures are being replaced with more accurate, updated versions.
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Pure greed.
The only difference is societal acceptance.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
I wish our government would regulate this shit. Airlines shouldn’t be able to nickle and dime like this. Prices just keep going up
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Stop posting clickbait.
Put the proper noun in the goddamn headline.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
So if the seat in front of me reclines into my face, I cannot move without paying?
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I wish our government would regulate this shit. Airlines shouldn’t be able to nickle and dime like this. Prices just keep going up
But that would add needless bureaucracy! The industry will regulate itself and save taxpayer money!
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So if the seat in front of me reclines into my face, I cannot move without paying?
Oh they’re getting rid of that too. No reclining.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
The airline industry figured out long ago that people will suffer the most miserable flights possible in order to save money but they will absolutely take free comfort upgrades. If they do this it’s to save money and make the flight cheaper because if other airlines offer reclining seats at the same price customers will take those instead as a free upgrade.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Fast forward to the part where they make you pay for your own breathable air…
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
I had to really make sure this was not the Beaverton, I prefer sitting at the very back so I do not get the reclining seats. Unless the plane is not loaded enough or whatever the heck I get free upgrades to first class.
Another hack I have to get to the front of the plane is hobble into the airport with a recovering dislocated knee. Make it appear real good maybe relocate your other kneecap a few times in front of the check in clerk!
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where exactly is there not room, in your experience?
in mine, it just doesn’t really matter, so I’ve never been able to relate to comments like this, and nobody ever actually explains the details of why there isn’t room
I could understand somebody with long legs and the seat going back three quarters of an inch is enough to make a difference, but that’s about it, and that seems pretty uncommon to me because most people are not 6ft tall. although I’m not accounting for slouching
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where exactly is there not room, in your experience?
in mine, it just doesn’t really matter, so I’ve never been able to relate to comments like this, and nobody ever actually explains the details of why there isn’t room
I could understand somebody with long legs and the seat going back three quarters of an inch is enough to make a difference, but that’s about it, and that seems pretty uncommon to me because most people are not 6ft tall. although I’m not accounting for slouching
I’m over 6 feet. Only place in westjet flights I have enough legroom to not be unhealthy are the exit aisle and the first one behind second class seats.
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I wish our government would regulate this shit. Airlines shouldn’t be able to nickle and dime like this. Prices just keep going up
Do you have any idea how much more expensive flying used to be? When I was small, in the 1960s, people might take one overseas flight in their lives. Some never did.
A quick search indicates that a round-trip flight between New York and London in 1965 cost about $3,500 in today’s dollars. Now it averages $800.
Not that I disagree that airlines are nickel and diming people and keep pushing to see how far they can go before it hurts their bottom line.
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Do you have any idea how much more expensive flying used to be? When I was small, in the 1960s, people might take one overseas flight in their lives. Some never did.
A quick search indicates that a round-trip flight between New York and London in 1965 cost about $3,500 in today’s dollars. Now it averages $800.
Not that I disagree that airlines are nickel and diming people and keep pushing to see how far they can go before it hurts their bottom line.
They’re also a lot more planes today.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Ugh. What a pain. Can’t they just make it a subscription instead?
/s
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
Good, about time.
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This week, Canadian airline WestJet became one of the first to try to switch the ability to recline into a paid “perk” by announcing that it was reconfiguring 43 of its Boeing 737-8 MAX and 737-800 (BA) planes to have what it classifies as a “refreshed range of seating options.”
I’m ok with that. Make it $800 for all I care. I have long legs. Fuck people who recline their seats.
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Do you have any idea how much more expensive flying used to be? When I was small, in the 1960s, people might take one overseas flight in their lives. Some never did.
A quick search indicates that a round-trip flight between New York and London in 1965 cost about $3,500 in today’s dollars. Now it averages $800.
Not that I disagree that airlines are nickel and diming people and keep pushing to see how far they can go before it hurts their bottom line.
Like in the 60s, the IBM 3.5mb hard drive went for $35,000 a month. Now the 24,000,000mb drives are $370.
Phill Edwards has a great video talking about the changes in airlines, while focused on the US market, it has a wide impact to the entire industry.
As a matter of fact after looking into this a little more, it’s cheaper to fly now for several reasons. Not just economy of scale but also the technology.
(Note: All 1970 figures are adjusted for inflation to 2024 U.S. dollars using a CPI multiplier of approximately 8.04. We assume a 1970 jet fuel price of $0.11/gallon and a 2024 price of $2.50/gallon.)
Cost Analysis: 707 vs. 737 MAX 8 Aircraft & Capacity
- Purchase Price (Market Value):
- 707-320B (1970): $8.0 Million
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $64.32 Million
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $55 Million
- Change (Real Terms): -14.5%
- Typical Seats (Mixed/Typical):
- 707-320B (1970): 145
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 145
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 166
- Change (Real Terms): +14.5%
- Industry Load Factor (LF):
- 707-320B (1970): 49.3%
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 49.3%
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 85.0%
- Change (Real Terms): +35.7 pts
- Avg. Passengers per Flight:
- 707-320B (1970): 71.5
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 71.5
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 141.1
- Change (Real Terms): +97.3% Efficiency Metrics
- Engines:
- 707-320B (1970): 4 (Low-bypass)
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 4
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 2 (High-bypass)
- Change (Real Terms): -50%
- Cockpit Crew:
- 707-320B (1970): 3–4
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 3–4
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 2
- Change (Real Terms): -33% to -50%
- Fuel Burn (Gallons/Hour):
- 707-320B (1970): 2,500
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): 2,500
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): 580
- Change (Real Terms): -76.8% Hourly Operating Costs (Est.)
- Fuel Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $275.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $2,211
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $1,450
- Change (Real Terms): -34.4%
- Crew Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $250.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $2,010
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $850
- Change (Real Terms): -57.7%
- Maintenance Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $150.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $1,206
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $750
- Change (Real Terms): -37.8%
- Total Hourly Op. Cost:
- 707-320B (1970): $675.00
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $5,427
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $3,050
- Change (Real Terms): -43.8% Economics & Pricing
- Cost per Seat Hour:
- 707-320B (1970): $4.66
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $37.43
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $18.37
- Change (Real Terms): -50.9%
- Cost per Passenger Hour:
- 707-320B (1970): $9.44
- 707-320B (in 2024 USD): $75.90
- 737 MAX 8 (2024): $21.62
- Change (Real Terms): -71.5%
(Note: Hourly Operating Costs focus on Fuel, Crew, and Maintenance for direct comparison of operational efficiency.)
This direct comparison between two similarly sized narrow-body aircraft reveals a profound improvement in aviation economics over the past 50 years.
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Acquisition Costs and Capacity: Remarkably, the 737 MAX 8 is actually cheaper in real terms (-14.5%) than the Boeing 707 was in 1970. The 707 was expensive, state-of-the-art technology for its time. Manufacturing efficiencies and the massive scale of the 737 program have driven down the real acquisition cost of modern narrow-bodies, despite their increased complexity. Furthermore, the 737 MAX 8 carries about 14.5% more seats (166 vs. 145) due to modern, denser seating configurations.
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The Fuel Efficiency Chasm: This is the most striking technological difference. The 707 utilized four early-generation, low-bypass engines that were incredibly thirsty, burning about 2,500 gallons per hour. The 737 MAX 8, utilizing two highly advanced, high-bypass CFM LEAP engines, burns only 580 gallons per hour. This represents a 76.8% reduction in fuel burn per hour.
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Operating Costs Plummet: When comparing these two aircraft, the total hourly operating cost of the 737 MAX 8 is 43.8% lower in real terms than the 707.
- Fuel Costs: Despite the massive increase in the price of jet fuel (from $0.11 to $2.50), the efficiency gains are so profound that the real cost of fuel per hour is 34.4% lower today.
- Crew Costs: Real crew costs are down 57.7%. This is driven by the elimination of the Flight Engineer and Navigator roles required on the 707, standardizing the two-person cockpit.
- Maintenance Costs: Real maintenance costs are down 37.8%. A major driver here is the shift from four engines on the 707 to two engines on the 737 MAX 8, significantly reducing engine maintenance overhead and benefiting from improved reliability.
- The Impact of Utilization: The technological improvements are magnified by changes in airline business practices following deregulation. The shift from planes flying half-empty (49.3% load factor) to nearly full (85.0% load factor) is crucial.
The combined effect of higher seating density and better load factors means the average 737 MAX 8 flight carries 141.1 passengers, nearly double the 71.5 passengers carried on the average 707 flight (+97.3%). Conclusion
When comparing the Boeing 707 directly to the modern 737 MAX 8, the advancements are extraordinary. The modern aircraft is cheaper to buy (in real terms), carries more seats, and costs nearly half as much to operate per hour.
By combining a 43.8% reduction in hourly costs with a 97.3% increase in passengers per flight, the inflation-adjusted cost to the airline to fly one passenger for one hour has decreased by a staggering 71.5% (from $75.90 to $21.62).
- Purchase Price (Market Value):
