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  3. Should parents who refuse childhood vaccines be liable if their choice harms someone else’s kid?

Should parents who refuse childhood vaccines be liable if their choice harms someone else’s kid?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Canada
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  • Y yezzey@lemmy.ca

    Kids shouldn’t be getting measles in the first place. No measles, no problems you described. No anger here.

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    Rodsthencones
    wrote last edited by
    #64

    Bacteria and viruses spread. It’s what they do. We need a way to adapt to them. Vaccines are good, being healthy probably helps more. What we need is real food, housing and health care and education. Instead we have arguments about vaccines. Sad really.

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    • M mojomcjojo@lemmy.world

      Felony murder, in my opinion.

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      RodgeGrabTheCat 🇨🇦🏴‍☠️
      wrote last edited by
      #65

      Even if the child dies, withholding a vaccine would have to be made illegal. You need to be committing a felony first, someone dies, then get charged with felony murder.

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      • F falschgeldfurkan@lemmy.world

        Thanks, appreciate the write-up! I’m just wondering that myself, my question wasn’t meant as an anti-vax post.

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        bassgirl09@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #66

        You’re welcome! 🙂

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        • Y yezzey@lemmy.ca

          We are not litigious as Canadians, but maybe we should be in this aspect.

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          savethetuahawk@lemmy.ca
          wrote last edited by
          #67

          Because we have loser pays laws for civil suits.

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          • A anonymous111@lemmy.world

            I think there are a few issues:

            1. How do you prove kid A gave kid B measels?

            2. Why isn’t kid B vaccinated? Because they don’t need to be, group immunity. Well that is no longer true with anti vax so…

            3. Kid B then gives kid C measels, so kid B’s parents are now liable.

            4. Your in small claims court. You have to prove damages. So you’re going for loss of earning for an adult looking after the kid + pain and suffering. Is that payout going to be worth filing papers, legal advice etc.

            You’d be better passing a law to mandate vaccines, but that won’t be politically viable.

            Just my thoughts - am not Canadian.

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            ilikeboobies@lemmy.ca
            wrote last edited by ilikeboobies@lemmy.ca
            #68

            pain and suffering.

            Minus this, that’s not a thing in Canada. You could seek future earnings if the child died but that’s hard to prove when they don’t even have a GED and it’s unlikely when the child is dead. (Also would take it out of small claims)

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            • V voroxpete@sh.itjust.works

              I’m personally of the opinion that refusing to vaccinate your kids should not be a choice parents get to make. Just like how you can’t choose to starve your children, no matter how deeply and truly you believe that we can draw all our necessary sustenance from the air.

              In Canada we have a legal concept called the “Duty of persons to provide necessaries.”

              Here’s the relevant legal code:

              215 (1) Every one is under a legal duty (a) as a parent, foster parent, guardian or head of a family, to provide necessaries of life for a child under the age of sixteen years;

              Link Preview Image
              Failing to Provide the Necessaries of Life (Offence) - Criminal Law Notebook

              favicon

              (www.criminalnotebook.ca)

              I firmly believe that vaccinations should be deemed one of the “necessaries of life” under this article of the criminal code. Like food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. You shouldn’t have a choice in this matter. We shouldn’t even be talking about whether or not that choice harms someone else’s kid, because that’s actually beside the point. At a basic level, we as a society have already agreed that children’s right to be properly sheltered and cared for outweighs their parents rights to decide how they live. The idea that there should be an exception for vaccines - something that can mean the difference between life and death - is absolutely ridiculous.

              quick_snail@feddit.nlQ This user is from outside of this forum
              quick_snail@feddit.nlQ This user is from outside of this forum
              quick_snail@feddit.nl
              wrote last edited by quick_snail@feddit.nl
              #69

              Excuse me, I’m breath-tarian /s

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              • A Hemingways_Shotgun

                If it can be proven. Yes. But there are too many variables to be able to prove it usually.

                quick_snail@feddit.nlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                quick_snail@feddit.nlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                quick_snail@feddit.nl
                wrote last edited by
                #70

                Antibodies?

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                • I ilikeboobies@lemmy.ca

                  pain and suffering.

                  Minus this, that’s not a thing in Canada. You could seek future earnings if the child died but that’s hard to prove when they don’t even have a GED and it’s unlikely when the child is dead. (Also would take it out of small claims)

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                  anonymous111@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #71

                  Same here. Your pain and suffering is like $40.

                  Crazy when you see US damages being in the millions.

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                  • quick_snail@feddit.nlQ quick_snail@feddit.nl

                    Antibodies?

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                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    Hemingways_Shotgun
                    wrote last edited by
                    #72

                    I’m assuming you mean that the kid that wasn’t vaccinated wouldn’t have antibodies in his system? But how do you tie that to “This is definitely the kid that gave the measles to my child”.

                    Could have been that kid in his class that is unvaccinated. It could have been a kid he hung out with on the playground, or a kid he walked past in a mall.

                    There’s no way to prove beyond reasonable doubt that just because the kid in his class wasn’t vaxxed, that he was necessarily the specific vector for your child to get measles. It’s impossible. To many variables.

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                    • Y yezzey@lemmy.ca

                      Canada just lost its measles-free status. So here’s the question…

                      If an unvaccinated child spreads measles to someone else’s kid, why shouldn’t the parents be liable in small-claims court?

                      I’m not talking about criminal charges, just basic responsibility. If your choice creates the risk you should have to prove you weren’t the reason someone else’s child got sick.

                      Is that unreasonable?

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                      bitjunkie@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #73

                      Or their own. Lock them the fuck up.

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