Food too expensive? It’s time for public grocery stores
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I just replied to your other comment, but even a local network can’t feed a city. Let’s do some more math.
Los Angeles has about 18 million people, and on average they take about 2 acres of land to feed (it can be less for vegetarians, but lets assume they are just normal people here)
That’s 36 million acres needed, which is about 56,000 square miles, which is an area of 280 miles by 200 miles of nothing but farmland.
You quite literally can’t even feed Los Angles with a 100 mile diet, even if it was surrounded by nothing but farms (which it isn’t)
In fact, California only has about 25 million acres of farmland in total (8 million irrigated, and the rest for animal grazing)
Source local food sounds good, but we import food for a reason. Cities require a ridiculous amount of farm land to feed.
What you said:
typical grocery store
What I said:
IMO every city should have public cafeterias
We’re not talking about the same thing. You’re arguing with yourself.
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What you said:
typical grocery store
What I said:
IMO every city should have public cafeterias
We’re not talking about the same thing. You’re arguing with yourself.
I’ve never been to a cafeteria with a bigger footprint than the average grocery store.
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IMO every city should have public cafeterias that:
A) Grow / process ingredients onsite (greenhouse), or source through a local network.
B) Provide nutritional food free of charge
C) Create entry level jobs that teach practical skills such as cooking and horticulture.
D) Increase food security. Global agriculture supply chains are about to be completely disrupted by climate change.
@Sunshine@piefed.ca
What you propose has existed for decades. See the link:
https://www.fns.usda.gov/summer/sitefinder
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@Sunshine@piefed.ca
What you propose has existed for decades. See the link:
https://www.fns.usda.gov/summer/sitefinderOur local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. It’s a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer
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Our local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. It’s a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer
@TORFdot0@lemmy.world
The school cafeterias could remain open 24/7 for everyone. Sure, taxes would go up about 50% or so, but free sloppy joes would be well worth it, amirite?
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How would this change the price?
The bloat is in the middle of the supply chain so unless these people avoid the middle man such as people who control the meat processing… There is limited impact having the retail handled by the state
Ever heard of a co-op? They usually deal directly with the providers. No middlemen.
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What we need are co-ops. Unfortunately it’s hard to run one of those. They tend to not make so much money.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
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Lol… That’s a place where affluent people feel “authentic”
They are hardly cheap and that’s the point
Modern farmers market is yuppie exercise
Honestly where I live, farmers markets are often the same price, sometimes a bit more and actually sometimes a bit less than a lot of grocery stores. All our groceries have to be shipped on a boat so it actually often is cheaper to grow and buy local.
Either way I prefer to give my money to the “yuppies” than to fuckhead billionaires like Galen Weston and Jim Pattison. I acknowledge that’s a privelege but I also won’t shit on people who make the same choice or who can’t afford to make that choice. The problem is not any of us, it’s the price-fixing ballsacks.
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What you said:
typical grocery store
What I said:
IMO every city should have public cafeterias
We’re not talking about the same thing. You’re arguing with yourself.
Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking?
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Only available for children in the summer… I don’t think this isn’t the solution being proposed.
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What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California.
You’re the one fucking around with “I want a greenhouse above my grocery store” with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space.
You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
I think people have to realize that capitalism has made us search for cheap over quality and nutrition when it comes to food.
Food is literally one of two things that keep us alive and thriving yet we balk at food that is slightly more expensive but much more nutritious, lasts much longer and requires less volume to feed one’s self due to this nutrient density vs. Commercially grown food, that has been transported thousands of kilometers to your local store.
You can’t afford the increase in price to buy quality food? That has nothing to do with the food, what or costs or what you should be buying or eating. It’s capitalism keeping you part of the slave class and making you think grocery store prices are normal.
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Sorry, we’d rather keep paving over farmland to make unaffordable mcmansions because our leaders cannot fathom a country that is self sufficient where values aren’t constantly increasing
Or allowing our wealthiest to buy up all the farmland so they have complete control of everything…like a feudal king.
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It’s a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn’t do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people.
Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics.
Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition.
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Lol… That’s a place where affluent people feel “authentic”
They are hardly cheap and that’s the point
Modern farmers market is yuppie exercise
That’s not the case everywhere, sucks to live In a sucky place, don’t project your issues on the rest of world. The farmers markets in Canada are farmer selling their produce, it’s cheaper than big box stores, and they take all the profit themselves other than rent for a stall.
How do they work in your country?
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Honestly where I live, farmers markets are often the same price, sometimes a bit more and actually sometimes a bit less than a lot of grocery stores. All our groceries have to be shipped on a boat so it actually often is cheaper to grow and buy local.
Either way I prefer to give my money to the “yuppies” than to fuckhead billionaires like Galen Weston and Jim Pattison. I acknowledge that’s a privelege but I also won’t shit on people who make the same choice or who can’t afford to make that choice. The problem is not any of us, it’s the price-fixing ballsacks.
… farmers markets don’t work without local farms…. Lmfao what a take.
They will also also have cheap seasonal food, if you want out of season, it’s always going to be expensive. Sounds like people here don’t understand how farmers market actually work and expect them to have the same options as the big box stores…
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I think people have to realize that capitalism has made us search for cheap over quality and nutrition when it comes to food.
Food is literally one of two things that keep us alive and thriving yet we balk at food that is slightly more expensive but much more nutritious, lasts much longer and requires less volume to feed one’s self due to this nutrient density vs. Commercially grown food, that has been transported thousands of kilometers to your local store.
You can’t afford the increase in price to buy quality food? That has nothing to do with the food, what or costs or what you should be buying or eating. It’s capitalism keeping you part of the slave class and making you think grocery store prices are normal.
They have the same nutrients as commercially grown. They have a higher density because theyre smaller and have way lower production. The neutrient declaine is going to happen regardless of you using high or low yield it just a matter of scale and time. All of this started exactly how you believe we should be doing it now. The problem is that doesnt make enough food for everyone and it only takes one bad year and a LOT of people dont get anything. So we selected for traits to stop that. The problem is that now we have to choose more land and resources (fertilizer and energy) to maintain heirloom strains and grow them at scale and transport them around faster and farther than theyre designed to last. Or less quality per yield but far more yield and much longer sheld life. Without forcing everyone to live within a certain radius of an heirloom farm there is only so much you can do before logistics and shelf life simply dont cut it anymore.
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… farmers markets don’t work without local farms…. Lmfao what a take.
They will also also have cheap seasonal food, if you want out of season, it’s always going to be expensive. Sounds like people here don’t understand how farmers market actually work and expect them to have the same options as the big box stores…
How did you even glean that from what I said? Yeah, of course they have cheap seasonal food that’s exactly my point. That’s exactly why they’re not overpriced yuppie shit as the person I was replying to claimed. People claim they’re overpriced anyway because they’re comparing them to the grocery store chains that sell less quality food and not local food for cheaper and underpay their workers. I’m not comparing apples to organes here I’m literally saying people would rather pay $4 for a pound pf California strawberries than $7 for a pound of local seasonal strawberries.
They don’t work in places without local farms, that’s fine then figure out something else for that area, but my point is no need to shit on farmers markets or on buying local.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
I have found that my local co-op has some great prices for some items and others that are more expensive but it depends on what I need to purchase. Their bulk teas are such a good deal and really the only place I can buy bulk teas. Their bulk goods are a good deal as well. Some of the fruit and vegetables are a good deal unless its not in season. Their bread (freshly made from a local bakery) tastes amazing and a great deal as well.
That being said I don’t love their meat selection (smaller selection, more expensive but has a few gems), nor do I like to buy their boxed standard goods. Broths, snacks, canned goods or anything like that is more expensive and doesn’t seem worth it for the quality difference. The key is to find a few anchors that get you there. I don’t go as often to my co-op compared to my local trader joes.
