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  3. There is no such thing as "decarbonized oil"

There is no such thing as "decarbonized oil"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Canada
canada
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  • streetfestival@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
    streetfestival@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
    streetfestival@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting. And it was particularly painful considering the venue — a province under a state of emergency where more than 15,000 people have fled wildfires.

    Link Preview Image
    There is no such thing as "decarbonized oil"

    The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting

    favicon

    Canada's National Observer (www.nationalobserver.com)

    kbalK K 2 Replies Last reply
    64
    • streetfestival@lemmy.caS streetfestival@lemmy.ca

      The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting. And it was particularly painful considering the venue — a province under a state of emergency where more than 15,000 people have fled wildfires.

      Link Preview Image
      There is no such thing as "decarbonized oil"

      The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting

      favicon

      Canada's National Observer (www.nationalobserver.com)

      kbalK This user is from outside of this forum
      kbalK This user is from outside of this forum
      kbal
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      If there were such a thing as decarbonized oil, it would be hydrogen. Hydrogen is literally what you get if you (magically) remove the carbon from oil. If they mean something else by it, they’re lying.

      H 1 Reply Last reply
      9
      • kbalK kbal

        If there were such a thing as decarbonized oil, it would be hydrogen. Hydrogen is literally what you get if you (magically) remove the carbon from oil. If they mean something else by it, they’re lying.

        H This user is from outside of this forum
        H This user is from outside of this forum
        humanspiral@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        It is possible to make clean (decarbonized) e fuels. It starts with green H2, and air captured CO2. It is an expensive process even with cheap electricity. Powering oil wells or tar sands with solar doesn’t count.

        P S 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • H humanspiral@lemmy.ca

          It is possible to make clean (decarbonized) e fuels. It starts with green H2, and air captured CO2. It is an expensive process even with cheap electricity. Powering oil wells or tar sands with solar doesn’t count.

          P This user is from outside of this forum
          P This user is from outside of this forum
          piccolo@sh.itjust.works
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          So… grow plants and then burn plants.

          BakkodaB 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • P piccolo@sh.itjust.works

            So… grow plants and then burn plants.

            BakkodaB This user is from outside of this forum
            BakkodaB This user is from outside of this forum
            Bakkoda
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I do that but not for fuel lol

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • H humanspiral@lemmy.ca

              It is possible to make clean (decarbonized) e fuels. It starts with green H2, and air captured CO2. It is an expensive process even with cheap electricity. Powering oil wells or tar sands with solar doesn’t count.

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
              someonesomewhere@lemmy.nz
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Biofuels/ethanol/SAF are much the same; often derived from corn.

              In many cases, the oil/gas/electricity used for harvesting, processing, cracking etc. is actually comparable to or exceeds the carbon released by simply drilling for and burning the oil in the first place.

              H 1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • streetfestival@lemmy.caS streetfestival@lemmy.ca

                The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting. And it was particularly painful considering the venue — a province under a state of emergency where more than 15,000 people have fled wildfires.

                Link Preview Image
                There is no such thing as "decarbonized oil"

                The decarbonized doublespeak may not be new but it was jarring coming from the mouth of our new PM, who has an undeniable grasp of the impacts of hydrocarbons but nevertheless talked about “decarbonized barrels” at the press conference following the first ministers’ meeting

                favicon

                Canada's National Observer (www.nationalobserver.com)

                K This user is from outside of this forum
                K This user is from outside of this forum
                Kindness is Punk
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Same vibes as when they were going on about “clean” coal.

                1 Reply Last reply
                3
                • S someonesomewhere@lemmy.nz

                  Biofuels/ethanol/SAF are much the same; often derived from corn.

                  In many cases, the oil/gas/electricity used for harvesting, processing, cracking etc. is actually comparable to or exceeds the carbon released by simply drilling for and burning the oil in the first place.

                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                  humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Solar power per acre will drive a Model Y 200 times further than ethanol will drive at 30mpg. And you can grow crops underneath/around solar. Corn ethanol, and other biofuels, are greenwashing that with fertilizers can emit as much as gasoline.

                  E-fuels are different. Take that 200 higher energy/range, and making H2 through electrolysis, makes a fuel that can get 100 times the range of ethanol. Can further chemically process that H2 to make gasoline or kerosene, and it is still green if the CO2 input is sourced from the air. H2 is best because it’s the cheapest green fuel, but also because a fuel cell is 2x+ more efficient than an engine. Aviation especially has the most to gain, as H2 is highest energy density by weight fuel, and a typical plane costs 100x more in fuel over its lifetime than its purchase price.

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • H humanspiral@lemmy.ca

                    Solar power per acre will drive a Model Y 200 times further than ethanol will drive at 30mpg. And you can grow crops underneath/around solar. Corn ethanol, and other biofuels, are greenwashing that with fertilizers can emit as much as gasoline.

                    E-fuels are different. Take that 200 higher energy/range, and making H2 through electrolysis, makes a fuel that can get 100 times the range of ethanol. Can further chemically process that H2 to make gasoline or kerosene, and it is still green if the CO2 input is sourced from the air. H2 is best because it’s the cheapest green fuel, but also because a fuel cell is 2x+ more efficient than an engine. Aviation especially has the most to gain, as H2 is highest energy density by weight fuel, and a typical plane costs 100x more in fuel over its lifetime than its purchase price.

                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    someonesomewhere@lemmy.nz
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    The issue with aviation hydrogen is… well, lots.

                    • Fuel cells are heavy and direct combustion is inefficient and tougher than burning kerosene.

                    • Aircraft typically use the wing structural members as the fuel tank walls. Both cryogenic and pressurised options make that a non-starter.

                    • Lower density means much bigger tanks.

                    • Self-vapourising fuel is a major crash issue.

                    • Round trip efficiency for H2 is still terrible.

                    Plants may not be particularly efficient per km^2 but arable land isn’t actually that hugely scarce.

                    Reducing aviation is really the only thing that’s actually going to work.

                    H 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S someonesomewhere@lemmy.nz

                      The issue with aviation hydrogen is… well, lots.

                      • Fuel cells are heavy and direct combustion is inefficient and tougher than burning kerosene.

                      • Aircraft typically use the wing structural members as the fuel tank walls. Both cryogenic and pressurised options make that a non-starter.

                      • Lower density means much bigger tanks.

                      • Self-vapourising fuel is a major crash issue.

                      • Round trip efficiency for H2 is still terrible.

                      Plants may not be particularly efficient per km^2 but arable land isn’t actually that hugely scarce.

                      Reducing aviation is really the only thing that’s actually going to work.

                      H This user is from outside of this forum
                      H This user is from outside of this forum
                      humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Delta wing designs will harry a lot of H2. It is suitable for LH2. Carbon fibre reinforced wing tanks. Efficiency is not as bad as other storage processes. Exportable/transportable fuel has huge advantages in monetizing surplus renewables.

                      Self-vapourising fuel is a major crash issue.

                      I don’t know about this. Vaporization does create a cooling effect, and having some battery can increase takeoff power and be charged during flight. Venting pressure release is an easy option.

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