It’s interesting you would make this point, since there is no right to for a given state to exist in international law. There’s a right to self determination. But that is not the same thing.

It’s interesting you would make this point, since there is no right to for a given state to exist in international law. There’s a right to self determination. But that is not the same thing.

Considering it is International law that grants the states existence in the first place, I would say that is a moot point.

Your disregarding the point.

No I think the question of why Israel is an apartheid state is indeed the point.

That’s just not true. State exists or they don’t de facto. Self determination applies to people, not states. States have a right to territorial integrity, aka not getting attacked, but that’s it.

Zionism is a fascist ideology based upon building an ethno nation states wherein those of other ethnicities are expelled or exterminated.

Why do other ethnic and religious groups exist in modern day Israel if they were all supposed to be expelled or exterminated?

Not arguing against the fact that Israel doesn’t have equal rights for everyone. Arguing against the other person assertion that everyone was expelled or exterminated.

A right to territorial integrity and to not be attacked is literally the right to exist.

Whether or not they have achieved their goal doesn’t change the fact that is the stated goal.

Except it isn’t. They are two different legal concepts.

The simple fact that under international law a state has a right to territorial integrity and safety from aggressive actions means that a state has a right to exist within their borders under international law.

You are free to elaborate at any time on your point of view.

Define “they”.

Zionist leaders and terrorists such as Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett, the list goes on and on.

“We must expel Arabs and take their places…and, if we have to use force… then we have force at our disposal.” - Ben Gurion

“The compulsory transfer of the [Palestinians] from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own during the days of the first and second Temples. We are given an opportunity which we never dared to dream of in our wildest imaginings.” - Ben Gurion

“In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the [Palestinian peasants]… Jewish power, which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out the transfer on a large scale.” - Ben Gurion

“With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement]. I support compulsory transfer. I don’t see anything immoral in it.” - Ben Gurion

“After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the [Jewish] state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of the Palestine” - Ben Gurion

“[the indigenous Palestinian population was akin to] the rocks of Judea, as obstacles that had to be cleared on a difficult path.” - Chaim Weizmann

"With regard to the refugees, we are determined to be adamant while the war lasts. Once the return tide starts, it will be impossible to stem it, and it will prove our undoing. As for the future, we are equally determined to explore all possibilities of getting rid, once and for all, of the huge [Palestinian] Arab minority [Palestinian Israeli citizens of Israel] which originally threatened us. What can be achieved in this period of storm and stress [the 1948 war] will be quite unattainable once conditions get stabilized. - Moshe Sharett

“…the transfer of [Palestinian] Arab population from the area of the Jewish state does not serve only one aim–to diminish the Arab population. It also serves a second, no less important, aim which is to advocate land presently held and cultivated by the [Palestinian] Arabs and thus to release it for Jewish inhabitants.” - Yosef Weitz (JNF)

“It must be clear that there is no room in the country for both peoples…If the Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us…The only solution is a Land of Israel…without Arabs…There is no way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them, save perhaps for [the Palestinian Arabs of] Bethlehem, Nazareth, and the old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one tribe.” - Yosef Weitz

Is that clear enough for you? Probably not, no amount of evidence can defeat a zealot’s cognitive dissonance.

If that were the case then a state formed after conquest would be legitimate. But it clearly isn’t.

Feel free to refer to Francesca Albanese, lawyer and scholar of internal law and current UN rapporteur for more question. I have no doubt that she is just vaguely more competent (and clearly more morally correct) than you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlbFSpNASO4

I am not and have never denied the fact that the Israeli Government is full of bad people.

I can pull just as many quotes from the other side of the conflict, and the point would be just as moot.

The rhetoric is extremist and wrong, those speaking it are wrong, and every single person responsible for what is happening should be brought to justice.

Is that clear enough for you? Probably not.

You should try forming a point of view of your own before attempting conversation in a very nuanced subject.

My point of view couldn’t be more clear. The state of Israel as it exists must be dismantled and a single state of equal rights for all must be established. The right to returned of the millions of Palestinians refugees must be complied with, and reparations should be paid.

Yours on the other hand seems to be vague handwaiving of Zionist propaganda.

These are all key figures in the establishment of the state of Israel.

“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population. ’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!” - Yitzhak Rabin

This is the Zionist goal… it couldn’t be any clearer than it is.