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  3. Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

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  • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

    You do understand that Palestinians are being oppressed by Hamas right? They have moved the goal post so many times themself it is clear they also don’t want peace. Especially considering their goal is to ethnically cleanse Israel.

    Which is my damn point. Both sides need to stop because innocent civilians are dying daily, and the rest of the world needs to stop fucking around and disarm both parties to intervene for real.

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    rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #33

    While Hamas is oppressing the Palestinians who oppose it’s rule it is not the one who killed at least 50k of them. They the one who is currently attacking the occupation force.

    Hamas can’t destroy Israel even if they want to and with a Palestinians state with it’s own army it could exterminate Hamas if it refuse to drop arms.

    You won’t stop the oppressed retaliating with the most atrocious actions if the occupation don’t end first. This is basic logic. Would you have said both slaves and slaves owners need to stop violence in the same time after Nate Turner revolt where he killed some kids or you would simply has say slavery should be abolish first?

    1 Reply Last reply
    5
    • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

      Nothing but giving back all post 67 land to Palestinians , giving the right to return to Palestinians who was ethnically cleansing and want to go back to Israel while accepting their laws and also having an army to defend the state for any other potential aggression

      I would also include right to return for Israelis who wish to return to their home lands they were ethnically cleansed from under the condition they abide by the laws there as well.

      But you are just here to argue, so again, you don’t see the middle ground.

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      rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
      wrote on last edited by
      #34

      If you mean jews returning to Arab countries they where kicked out in response of Zionists doing the Nekba then yes i would support that

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      • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

        Why you needed to edit this 3 times in a couple of minutes, and then repost it after I responded, I can only assume you actually were hoping to get an out of context response, so I still won’t bother responding to your genocidal rhetoric about a 1 state solution, or continue this conversation further as I see you as a major part of the problem and do not have the energy to deal with you.

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        wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on last edited by
        #35

        I still won’t bother responding to your genocidal rhetoric

        Get lost hasbara. Israel has no legal right to exist.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

          Sounds like a good reason to surrender.

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          rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
          wrote on last edited by
          #36

          Will them surrendering will end occupation?

          A 1 Reply Last reply
          6
          • K kaboom@reddthat.com

            It kinda does. They have an older claim than the Muslims.

            acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
            acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
            acargitz
            wrote on last edited by
            #37

            What a profoundly stupid thing to say.

            Kindly, a Greek who isn’t making ridiculous claims on Marseille, Taranto, Constantinople, Caesarea, Cyrene, Antioch and Alexandria on the motherfucking Indus.

            K 1 Reply Last reply
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            • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

              Do you believe in a two state solution?

              acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
              acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
              acargitz
              wrote on last edited by
              #38

              The last 30 years of Israeli state policy after the Oslo accords has resulted in facts on the ground (Israeli phrasing, not mine) to the tune of 700k Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

              As the various calls for two states invariably ignore the Israeli facts on the ground, and do not propose any realistic vision for undoing them, at this stage they are merely promoting the creation of a Bantustan within the existing apartheid framework.

              In other words, the israeli facts on the ground have killed off the possibility of a two state solution, where Palestine would be an actual state. This means there are only two options:

              A) a continuation of the apartheid regime of the present, potentially with a Palestinian collaborationist Banstustan, and with various degrees of Israeli perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing thrown in during the inevitable flare-ups of violence.

              B) a plurinational post-apartheid democratic state with equal rights for all nationalities and religions from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.

              I guess the third option is for Israel to self-ethnically cleanse the settlers from the West Bank, but that sounds even more outlandish than the supposedly idealistic option B.

              There used to be an phrase that Israel can be “large, Jewish, democratic, but can only pick 2”. Over the last 30 years since Oslo, successive Israeli governments, more or less dominated by the Israeli Right, and basically by Netanyahu, has forced the choice of “Large”. So now the Israelis have to pick between Zionism and Democracy.

              R A 2 Replies Last reply
              10
              • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                Until the majority of Palestinians accept that Israel has a right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, there won’t be lasting peace between the two. An incredibly poor choice of words, but the point is clear to those willing to listen.

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                Phoenixz
                wrote on last edited by
                #39

                And you watched the news for the past year and concluded that Palestinians are the problem?

                I mean, of course they are. They murder their own children, they play sounds of crying babies so that other Palestinians come out to find it so they can snipe those idiots, they murder ambulance drivers and the little child that was a witness to that massacre, I mean Palestinians are evil, man!

                Oh wait, that was all the IDF.

                Yeah, Hamas is an issue and you’d have a point to mention that (because I can already see you furuously scribbling that) of it weren’t for the fact that Hamas is (in good part) funded by Israel just to give the Israeli army an excuse to murder even more Palestinians.

                Nazis were the evil monsters of the 1940s. The Israeli government and army are the evil monsters of, well, the past 50 or so years? I remember the news reports fucking 40 years ago where the IDF would snipe murder young Palestinian kids because they throw rocks at them… All of these fucks should be swinging from the highest crane we can find

                A 1 Reply Last reply
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                • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                  Do you believe in a two state solution?

                  deceptichum@quokk.auD This user is from outside of this forum
                  deceptichum@quokk.auD This user is from outside of this forum
                  deceptichum@quokk.au
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #40

                  Not anymore.

                  There can be no peace as long as the Zionist genocidal terror state of Israel continues to exist; Destroy it as Rhodesia was destroyed and let the people form a new fairer country.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Sunshine (she/her)S Sunshine (she/her)
                    This post did not contain any content.
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                    Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

                    Listen now | It's not the first problematic comment he's made about the Middle East.

                    favicon

                    (rachelgilmore.substack.com)

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                    teppa
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #41

                    So he wants them to switch religions and integrate into Israel?

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    10
                    • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                      Until the majority of Palestinians accept that Israel has a right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, there won’t be lasting peace between the two. An incredibly poor choice of words, but the point is clear to those willing to listen.

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                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                      psx_crab@lemmy.zip
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #42

                      In what way occupying West Bank and preventing people from getting basic needs while trying hard to deport them from their land do you see it as a fight for their right to exists?

                      A 1 Reply Last reply
                      15
                      • Sunshine (she/her)S Sunshine (she/her)
                        This post did not contain any content.
                        Link Preview Image
                        Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

                        Listen now | It's not the first problematic comment he's made about the Middle East.

                        favicon

                        (rachelgilmore.substack.com)

                        N This user is from outside of this forum
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                        njm1314@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #43

                        So straight up he is a genocidal fascist then huh?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        9
                        • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                          Until the majority of Palestinians accept that Israel has a right to exist alongside a Palestinian state, there won’t be lasting peace between the two. An incredibly poor choice of words, but the point is clear to those willing to listen.

                          N This user is from outside of this forum
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                          njm1314@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by njm1314@lemmy.world
                          #44

                          The entire point of Zionism is you don’t exist alongside Palestine.

                          A 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                            Sounds like a good reason to surrender.

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                            maam@feddit.uk
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #45

                            What is wrong with you…

                            A 1 Reply Last reply
                            4
                            • Sunshine (she/her)S Sunshine (she/her)
                              This post did not contain any content.
                              Link Preview Image
                              Mark Carney calls for a 'Zionist' Palestine (yeah, he actually did)

                              Listen now | It's not the first problematic comment he's made about the Middle East.

                              favicon

                              (rachelgilmore.substack.com)

                              M This user is from outside of this forum
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                              minorkeys@lemmy.world
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #46

                              But did he though…?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              6
                              • acargitzT acargitz

                                What a profoundly stupid thing to say.

                                Kindly, a Greek who isn’t making ridiculous claims on Marseille, Taranto, Constantinople, Caesarea, Cyrene, Antioch and Alexandria on the motherfucking Indus.

                                K This user is from outside of this forum
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                                kaboom@reddthat.com
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #47

                                And why aren’t you making those claims? You some kinda charity?

                                acargitzT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • K kaboom@reddthat.com

                                  And why aren’t you making those claims? You some kinda charity?

                                  acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  acargitz
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #48

                                  You are American, I presume?

                                  K 1 Reply Last reply
                                  12
                                  • acargitzT acargitz

                                    You are American, I presume?

                                    K This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    kaboom@reddthat.com
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #49

                                    Yes, and you?

                                    acargitzT M 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • acargitzT acargitz

                                      The last 30 years of Israeli state policy after the Oslo accords has resulted in facts on the ground (Israeli phrasing, not mine) to the tune of 700k Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

                                      As the various calls for two states invariably ignore the Israeli facts on the ground, and do not propose any realistic vision for undoing them, at this stage they are merely promoting the creation of a Bantustan within the existing apartheid framework.

                                      In other words, the israeli facts on the ground have killed off the possibility of a two state solution, where Palestine would be an actual state. This means there are only two options:

                                      A) a continuation of the apartheid regime of the present, potentially with a Palestinian collaborationist Banstustan, and with various degrees of Israeli perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing thrown in during the inevitable flare-ups of violence.

                                      B) a plurinational post-apartheid democratic state with equal rights for all nationalities and religions from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.

                                      I guess the third option is for Israel to self-ethnically cleanse the settlers from the West Bank, but that sounds even more outlandish than the supposedly idealistic option B.

                                      There used to be an phrase that Israel can be “large, Jewish, democratic, but can only pick 2”. Over the last 30 years since Oslo, successive Israeli governments, more or less dominated by the Israeli Right, and basically by Netanyahu, has forced the choice of “Large”. So now the Israelis have to pick between Zionism and Democracy.

                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                                      rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #50

                                      There the other part where between gaza and the west bank there is israel so who will control the land that palestinians need to pass to move from gaza to the west bank and the west bank to gaza

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • A arkouda@lemmy.ca

                                        There are people responsible on both sides. I will not argue with you about that fact.

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                                        mongostein@lemmy.ca
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #51

                                        Except there are 5 sides. The US government, the Israeli government, the Israeli people, Hamas, and the Palestinian people.

                                        The Israeli government, the US government, and Hamas can all go fuck themselves. It’s the Palestinian people who are needlessly suffering.

                                        A 1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • K kaboom@reddthat.com

                                          It kinda does. They have an older claim than the Muslims.

                                          K This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #52

                                          And who has an older claim to the land your house is on?

                                          K 1 Reply Last reply
                                          8

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