You're going to make up the funding shortfall, right?
-
Are we now acting like universities are poor and aren’t gouging the fuck out of everyone?
They’re not, really. Their expenses have gone up to match. The days of just teaching with just blackboards are over.
If all expenses are necessary is another question, though. Someone mentioned administration bloat.
-
Perhaps if you had of attended either institution, you wouldn’t make comments like that one.
projection
-
The federal and provincial governments have been underfunding universities for decades. Recently, universities were able to start recruiting foreign students to make up for the shortfall, but it looks like that money tap will be turned down. It doesn’t look like there’s a plan to make up for it.
At the same time, the feds want to
recruit more than 1,000 top international researchers to Canada, with the budget injecting up to $1.7-billion into a suite of recruitment measures.
That’ll be tough if universities see their income crater.
Once they come for the universities, you know whats up. Happened in nazi germany, where they burned intellectual property including but not limited to the studies of the university of berlin about gender theory.
-
projection
If my comment is a projection, yours is a prolapse.
-
Isn’t growing universities a good thing? It seems to me that giving everyone access to a university education would be highly beneficial to the people.
Universities have grown way beyond what they need to for the domestic student population. This is growth squarely aimed at international students who pay 5-10x what domestic students pay in tuition. Cut off the tap of international students and you end up with huge unused capacity and budget shortfalls.
-
I watched my local college lose all its credibility as a result of running borderline scams for foreign students. My old university otoh has been rather smart about not becoming too dependent on foriegn student tuition. I love immigration, and especially think exporting our education is a good thing, but the way these programs have been run in recent years is a cancer on these institutions and pure short term thinking. I’d rather see reform, but this is almost as good.
I’d rather see reform, but this is almost as good.
Actual reform would be the way to go.
UofT appears to have done a good job of keeping their books balanced, despite the glut of foreign students, but many others have not.
-
Tuition costs have been capped for the last 8 years in Ontario. Is everyone just pulling numbers out of their asses?
Tuition fees have been capped, not tuition costs. Tuition costs go up when universities build more buildings, hire more staff, pay for more electricity and heating. If they’re doing all that stuff to cater to extremely lucrative international students who then get cut off, the school ends up with budget shortfalls.
This is all excess capacity (and luxury) that domestic students don’t need and didn’t ask for. It’s all designed to compete for international students on the global market.
-
They’re not, really. Their expenses have gone up to match. The days of just teaching with just blackboards are over.
If all expenses are necessary is another question, though. Someone mentioned administration bloat.
I have worked in hospitals and I would imagine it’s a similar situation. The top people make all the money and the nursing and housekeeping staff keep getting shafted and told “there’s no money for you”
-
WTF are you even talking about?
University is only for the middle class and wealthy, the poor don’t get to play
-
Universities have grown way beyond what they need to for the domestic student population. This is growth squarely aimed at international students who pay 5-10x what domestic students pay in tuition. Cut off the tap of international students and you end up with huge unused capacity and budget shortfalls.
Okay but larger enrollments help everyone. Attracting legitimate international students to our Universities tends to result in better educations for our citizens and better research for our society. There’s no necessary downside.
-
I’d rather see reform, but this is almost as good.
Actual reform would be the way to go.
UofT appears to have done a good job of keeping their books balanced, despite the glut of foreign students, but many others have not.
U of T is Toronto’s biggest land owner.
-
There is too much bloat. I’ve seen first hand essentially glorified admins being paid $130k + full pension. They need to trim the fat at these places and restructure operations to get rid of all the waste.
Yeah that won’t happen. Senior admin bloat is like crack cocaine for universities and colleges.
-
Okay, right after you explain why Real Estate agents are millionaires.
Is this a whataboutism?
Because this seems like a whataboutism.
-
The federal and provincial governments have been underfunding universities for decades. Recently, universities were able to start recruiting foreign students to make up for the shortfall, but it looks like that money tap will be turned down. It doesn’t look like there’s a plan to make up for it.
At the same time, the feds want to
recruit more than 1,000 top international researchers to Canada, with the budget injecting up to $1.7-billion into a suite of recruitment measures.
That’ll be tough if universities see their income crater.
There are lots and lots of Universities all over the world pushing out hard working, intelligent people for which there are not even close to enough jobs. Make it make sense.
-
Unless its more than free that’s not affordable to most
It actually can be for many due to bursaries and very very easy to pay off loans. Few locals graduate with debt.
-
Ontario is just over $6K for most programs, $9K for engineering and B.Comm coops.
US, many times that.
That tracks, its a bit less here being ~5k for most programs
-
There are lots and lots of Universities all over the world pushing out hard working, intelligent people for which there are not even close to enough jobs. Make it make sense.
Oh, there are enough jobs, it’s just that most companies would rather pay one overworked person to pull 60hr weeks to pump out mediocre work before burning out and being replaced than pay two happy and productive people to work 40hr weeks or, heaven forbid, three people to work 30-32hr weeks with a huge bump in moral and producitivity.
We got the money, we got the people, and we got the evidence that backs it all up.
-
As clearly this thread has no clue what goes on at universities, or even knows the difference between universities and colleges, I’ll explain the OPs point.
$1.7B for 1000 scientist is $1.7M each, for 5 years in total. For senior scientists, this covers salary. But now we have 1000 extra grant applications in a system that is funded at 20% the level of the US per capita. This means we will try and recruit Americans, but tell them they will have an under 10% chance of getting any grant money, and that grant size is half a typical NIH or NSF grant. Large projects? Zero. This research has to be done somewhere, which costs universities money. The same universities getting squeezed by frozen tuitions the last 6 years.
So it is a designed bullshit line item. No one will access this because by the time it rolls out to real funds, the US will have reverted funding and going back to trouncing this banana republic. Excellence, why would an established scientists move to a poorly funded system? They will get more done of they just ride the storm in US.
This money goes to cancer and disease research, like lipid nanoparticles that saved millions of lives with COVID vaccines (yes, that came from Canada), or neural network algorithms driving trillions in investment, also from Canada, but we just pissed away that IP to the US for a handful of shiny rocks.
If Carney is serious about CDN productivity, he needs to fund R&D at per capita levels closer to US or China and make sure the result of this research is developed in Canada, not just sold off cheap to the US as per the last 60 years. A decent economist would realize there is tremendous potential return on investment, far higher than subsidies for pickup truck production to US corporations, and certainly more than the 100-150x more we waste on military spending which does nothing for the CDN economy.
This does not affect colleges. They don’t do research and are for vocational training.
Centrists and conservatives don’t have the capacity to understand “return on investment” or “in-direct benefits”. Carney is saving money by not paying the bills, so to speak, and that only works until the first of the month rolls around.
I’m so sick of seeing the research and case studies pile up which show all the easy, low-risk solutions to most of our problems just for those morons to bust in and keep doing the same worthless bullshit.
-
University is only for the middle class and wealthy, the poor don’t get to play
Guy. You’ve been all over the place with your uninformed criticisms. I don’t think you really even understand what it is that has you so upset at universities, but there is something playing out before us.
-
It actually can be for many due to bursaries and very very easy to pay off loans. Few locals graduate with debt.
Few locals graduate with debt.
[citation required]
