@atomicpoet

"jury-rig a laptop-to-TV setup just to watch" - isn't that usually just a matter of using an HDMI cable

@atomicpoet

"jury-rig a laptop-to-TV setup just to watch" - isn't that usually just a matter of using an HDMI cable

@the5thColumnist @atomicpoet The jury rigging of a laptop is probably easier than getting the TSN app to not freeze long enough so that you can cast it to your TV.

AJ Sadauskas Counterpoint: the Atlantic provinces together have 2.6 million people. Nova Scotia alone has about 1 million—roughly the same as Saskatchewan. And Saskatchewan not only has a CFL team, but one of the league’s strongest fan bases. Halifax itself is larger than Regina, so the market is there.

What Halifax needs isn’t a $1B boondoggle, just a modest 20,000-seat stadium designed to expand when needed. That’s enough to host a team, and with flexible design it could even scale up for playoff runs or special events down the road.

Until then, Saint Mary’s University’s setup shows there’s already an appetite for live football in the city—it can stretch to ~11,000 with temporary seating, which at least proves Halifax fans will turn up when the product is there.

Atlantic Canada has already sunk big money into junior and minor league hockey arenas that operate in the dead of winter. Why not a football stadium that brings entertainment in the summer, when the sports calendar is otherwise thin?

@atomicpoet Okay, with over a million an Atlantic team admittedly makes a bit more sense.

I'm curious why there's only one team each in the Vancouver and Greater Toronto metro areas? Surely you could have multiple teams in each city?

AJ Sadauskas The real problem is the CFL sucks at marketing its own product. Full stop. This league survives more because it’s old, it’s “Canada’s game,” and the ruleset makes for wild finishes.

It’s not because the suits know how to grow it. They don’t. Toronto’s a perfect example. Biggest city in the country, and nobody can name a single Argo. Fifteen thousand people show up at BMO Field and that’s considered good. That’s not a market problem—that’s a marketing problem.

Same story in Vancouver: the Lions have history, they have one of the best stadiums in the country, and yet they still struggle to break through in their own city.

So why not two teams in Toronto or Vancouver?

Because the CFL can’t even sell one properly. Toronto already overlaps with Hamilton.

This is a league that still leans on a $37M TV deal and gate receipts like it’s 1985. It needs stars. It needs storytelling. It needs to show off that wide-open, 3-down football instead of hiding behind a paywalled TSN stream. Until then, the idea of doubling up in the biggest metros is laughable.

Halifax makes more sense because it’s new territory, not cannibalizing what’s already there. But even with that, the CFL needs to figure out how to sell itself properly.

@atomicpoet It's counterintuitive, but having multiple teams in the most populous city has a lot of benefits over having just one.

Down here, the AFL has nine of its teams in Melbourne, plus two each in Sydney, Perth, Adelaide, and Southeast Queensland.

And the National Rugby League has 8.5 of its teams based in Sydney.

It's a different setup for European football with promotion and relegation. But again you have multiple teams in the EPL based in London (Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham, Tottenham Hotspur, Crystal Palace, etc).

Having cross-town rivalries helps to build interest, because you're likely to regularly come across people who barrack for your city's other teams.

You often get people who'll watch games to barrack against the crosstown rivals. ("My two favourite teams are the Adelaide Crows, and whoever is playing against Port Adelaide".)

You get multiple games each week involving teams from your biggest TV market.

You can have multiple teams sharing a stadium, which brings down the cost per game.

The costs of running the league go down in terms of travel and accommodation.

And you get the big matches where all the regular supporters of two of the city's teams pile into the same stadium.

Given the GTA has 7 million people, so it /should/ be able to support more than one team.

Presumably there'd be people who'd support a Mississauga or Brampton or Durham Region CFL team who don't currently follow the Argonauts.

Each of those clubs would be competing against each other for supporters.

It's a model that works very well elsewhere, why not in Canada?

AJ Sadauskas The real problem is the CFL sucks at marketing its own product. Full stop. This league survives more because it’s old, it’s “Canada’s game,” and the ruleset makes for wild finishes.

It’s not because the suits know how to grow it. They don’t. Toronto’s a perfect example. Biggest city in the country, and nobody can name a single Argo. Fifteen thousand people show up at BMO Field and that’s considered good. That’s not a market problem—that’s a marketing problem.

Same story in Vancouver: the Lions have history, they have one of the best stadiums in the country, and yet they still struggle to break through in their own city.

So why not two teams in Toronto or Vancouver?

Because the CFL can’t even sell one properly. Toronto already overlaps with Hamilton.

This is a league that still leans on a $37M TV deal and gate receipts like it’s 1985. It needs stars. It needs storytelling. It needs to show off that wide-open, 3-down football instead of hiding behind a paywalled TSN stream. Until then, the idea of doubling up in the biggest metros is laughable.

Halifax makes more sense because it’s new territory, not cannibalizing what’s already there. But even with that, the CFL needs to figure out how to sell itself properly.

@atomicpoet @aj

Actually, it's not just a marketing problem, it's a lack of income problem and affordability problem. Those at the head of the organizations set the prices too high for people to afford it, just like here in the US.

I'm just wondering how much of the economy in any nation is being grown by those among the top 20% and 10% versus the rest of the population. Those at the top account for more than 50% of the US economy now. I would suspect it's rather high in other countries as well.

@LanguageMan1 @atomicpoet Just out of curiousity, how much do general admission CFL tickets cost?

In Melbourne, you can get regular season adult general admission tickets to AFL games for A$27 and U14 kids tix for A$5. (Although you'll probably be at the back of the MCG at that price.)

"The AFL is pleased to announce, for the seventh straight season, a price freeze on general admission tickets for all matches at the MCG and Marvel Stadium across the 2025 Toyota AFL Premiership Season.

"General admission tickets will remain at $27 for adults, $18 for concession and $5 for juniors aged 14 and under, while children aged four and under continue to be free.

"A general admission ‘Family ticket' consisting of two adults and two children will also be frozen at $54 for all home and away season games at both the MCG and Marvel Stadium."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1266505/price-freeze-on-general-admission-tickets-at-mcg-and-marvel-stadium

It's A$35 for adults in Sydney for Sydney Swans games, but climbs steeply after that (as high as $96): https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/1419166/ticket-pricing

A lot of people, possibly most, who regularly go to games tend to get a club membership. That gets access to a set number of games, plus because most clubs are member-owned, you become a part-owner of your favourite club for a year.

How does that compare to CFL?

#AFL #CFL #sport

@LanguageMan1 @atomicpoet Just out of curiousity, how much do general admission CFL tickets cost?

In Melbourne, you can get regular season adult general admission tickets to AFL games for A$27 and U14 kids tix for A$5. (Although you'll probably be at the back of the MCG at that price.)

"The AFL is pleased to announce, for the seventh straight season, a price freeze on general admission tickets for all matches at the MCG and Marvel Stadium across the 2025 Toyota AFL Premiership Season.

"General admission tickets will remain at $27 for adults, $18 for concession and $5 for juniors aged 14 and under, while children aged four and under continue to be free.

"A general admission ‘Family ticket' consisting of two adults and two children will also be frozen at $54 for all home and away season games at both the MCG and Marvel Stadium."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1266505/price-freeze-on-general-admission-tickets-at-mcg-and-marvel-stadium

It's A$35 for adults in Sydney for Sydney Swans games, but climbs steeply after that (as high as $96): https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/1419166/ticket-pricing

A lot of people, possibly most, who regularly go to games tend to get a club membership. That gets access to a set number of games, plus because most clubs are member-owned, you become a part-owner of your favourite club for a year.

How does that compare to CFL?

#AFL #CFL #sport

@aj @LanguageMan1 @atomicpoet
I just did a quick check and Calgary Stampeder single game prices look to be CA$ 25-73 (plus up to 7 for Ticketmaster; you can buy without their fee at a box office I assume).

Our stadiums hold from 20-56,000 people.

The team salary cap is $6,000,000 so with 45 players that's an average $133,333. I'm sure there are players only making $60-70,000 who have regular jobs in the off season. Apparently the very highest paid players are in to $250-600,000 range.

@aj @LanguageMan1 @atomicpoet
The largest market is the Golden Horseshoe surrounding the west end of Lake Ontario with 7.7 to 10 to 11 million people depending on where you draw the lines.

There are two CFL teams: Toronto and Hamilton. As a comparison, that combined market has one NHL team and one NBA team, whose salary caps are an order of magnitude higher with far fewer players. They are big money sports.

CFL television contracts are much smaller money and much smaller advertising dollars.