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Wandering Adventure Party

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  3. In an attempt to break up the constant doom scrolling, I'm going to post random little snippets of information I've picked up over the years.

In an attempt to break up the constant doom scrolling, I'm going to post random little snippets of information I've picked up over the years.

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  • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

    Speaking of the Middle Ages, you've probably heard that "ye" was actually "the" and was never pronounced with a Y sound because they used the Y to represent the letter thorn, Þ. You may wonder why they picked Y as a substitute for a letter that looked more like a b superimposed on a p. It's because in a lot of handwriting, it looked like a Y. The runic form was a stick with a triangle on the side. Later forms were rounder. Some miniscule forms were much curvier like a fancy Y.

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    Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
    Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
    Brian Bình
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    Serifs were not extra bits added to letters as decoration. They were a natural consequence of writing with a quill. The tip of a quill has a little split through which ink flows by capillary action. When you press the quill to a page, the end spreads open on contact then narrows as you ease up on the pressure when you draw it across the page. That initial spread meant each stroke started with a serif "flare" (and sometimes ended with one if you pressed hard at the end, like in capital legs).

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    • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

      Serifs were not extra bits added to letters as decoration. They were a natural consequence of writing with a quill. The tip of a quill has a little split through which ink flows by capillary action. When you press the quill to a page, the end spreads open on contact then narrows as you ease up on the pressure when you draw it across the page. That initial spread meant each stroke started with a serif "flare" (and sometimes ended with one if you pressed hard at the end, like in capital legs).

      Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
      Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
      Brian Bình
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      You've heard how "uppercase" & "lowercase" letters are called that because typesetters literally stored them in cases with the majuscules on top. Did you know that majuscule & miniscule letters are two different versions of the Latin alphabet? The ancients wrote in majuscule letters. That's right. THE ROMANS WROTE IN ALL CAPS LIKE AN ANGRY INTERNET COMMENT (when they weren't using Greek to look fancy and dignified). Miniscule letters came much later around the start of the Middle Ages.

      Brian BìnhB NullN 2 Replies Last reply
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      • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

        You've heard how "uppercase" & "lowercase" letters are called that because typesetters literally stored them in cases with the majuscules on top. Did you know that majuscule & miniscule letters are two different versions of the Latin alphabet? The ancients wrote in majuscule letters. That's right. THE ROMANS WROTE IN ALL CAPS LIKE AN ANGRY INTERNET COMMENT (when they weren't using Greek to look fancy and dignified). Miniscule letters came much later around the start of the Middle Ages.

        Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
        Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
        Brian Bình
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        When scribes started using miniscule, they only used miniscule. it was its own alphabet.they wrote completely in lowercase letters.they also didn't space out their sentences much.parchment was expensive so they didn't want to waste space.

        It wasn't until Charlemagne's time that scribes invented "mixed case": using capital letters to start paragraphs and mark proper nouns while using miniscule for everything else. Capital letters helped break up the wall of text so it was easier to read.

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        • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

          When scribes started using miniscule, they only used miniscule. it was its own alphabet.they wrote completely in lowercase letters.they also didn't space out their sentences much.parchment was expensive so they didn't want to waste space.

          It wasn't until Charlemagne's time that scribes invented "mixed case": using capital letters to start paragraphs and mark proper nouns while using miniscule for everything else. Capital letters helped break up the wall of text so it was easier to read.

          Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
          Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
          Brian Bình
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          Upper and lowercase letters were two different alphabets stuck together to give us capitalization. If they had chosen a different majuscule alphabet, we could have had sentences like this:

          "Тhe Лord of the Рings" was a sequel to "Тhe Хobbit", both of which were written by Д'.Р.Р. Тolkien. Иt tells the story of the Оne Рing after Бilbo gives it to his nephew Фrodo and Гandalf tells him to destroy it.

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          • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

            Upper and lowercase letters were two different alphabets stuck together to give us capitalization. If they had chosen a different majuscule alphabet, we could have had sentences like this:

            "Тhe Лord of the Рings" was a sequel to "Тhe Хobbit", both of which were written by Д'.Р.Р. Тolkien. Иt tells the story of the Оne Рing after Бilbo gives it to his nephew Фrodo and Гandalf tells him to destroy it.

            Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
            Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
            Brian Bình
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            Michael J. Fox's real middle name is Andrew, but he didn't like "Michael A. Fox" as a stage name. By SAG rules, he had to use a name other than "Michael Fox" because there was already an actor with that name, so he just stuck a J in the middle.

            In his hit movie "Back to the Future", his character's father, George, says he has to get home so he doesn't miss his favorite TV program, "Science Fiction Theatre". "Science Fiction Theatre" had only 8 episodes. Four starred the original Michael Fox!

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            • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

              Michael J. Fox's real middle name is Andrew, but he didn't like "Michael A. Fox" as a stage name. By SAG rules, he had to use a name other than "Michael Fox" because there was already an actor with that name, so he just stuck a J in the middle.

              In his hit movie "Back to the Future", his character's father, George, says he has to get home so he doesn't miss his favorite TV program, "Science Fiction Theatre". "Science Fiction Theatre" had only 8 episodes. Four starred the original Michael Fox!

              Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
              Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
              Brian Bình
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              The Vietnamese language has *many* pronouns for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person. I can think of dozens off the top of my head and I suspect it's actually hundreds. They vary based on both relative and absolute age, social standing, incredibly complex family trees, profession, politeness, marital status, and more. Vietnamese people tend to ask a lot of personal questions when first meeting someone, which foreigners think is kind of rude, but they need that information to know how to refer to you.

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              • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                The Vietnamese language has *many* pronouns for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person. I can think of dozens off the top of my head and I suspect it's actually hundreds. They vary based on both relative and absolute age, social standing, incredibly complex family trees, profession, politeness, marital status, and more. Vietnamese people tend to ask a lot of personal questions when first meeting someone, which foreigners think is kind of rude, but they need that information to know how to refer to you.

                Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                Brian Bình
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Because of the complexity of its pronouns, the Vietnamese translation adds an extra layer of depth to the otherwise shallow dialogue of the Star Wars original trilogy, which I watched on TV in Vietnam.

                People speak to droids with the pronouns used to speak to pets or farm animals. Droids address people as professional superiors.

                Droids speak to each other like they are siblings.

                Vader speaks to everyone (except the emperor and Tarkin) as an arrogant superior addressing an underling.

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                • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                  Because of the complexity of its pronouns, the Vietnamese translation adds an extra layer of depth to the otherwise shallow dialogue of the Star Wars original trilogy, which I watched on TV in Vietnam.

                  People speak to droids with the pronouns used to speak to pets or farm animals. Droids address people as professional superiors.

                  Droids speak to each other like they are siblings.

                  Vader speaks to everyone (except the emperor and Tarkin) as an arrogant superior addressing an underling.

                  Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                  Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                  Brian Bình
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Everyone addresses Vader as if he were a high ranking imperial mandarin, which he kind of is.

                  Leia is addressed as a princess. Han constantly butchers it and mixes up her rank constantly until the Carbonite/"I know" scene when they start addressing each other as lovers.

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                  • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                    Everyone addresses Vader as if he were a high ranking imperial mandarin, which he kind of is.

                    Leia is addressed as a princess. Han constantly butchers it and mixes up her rank constantly until the Carbonite/"I know" scene when they start addressing each other as lovers.

                    Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                    Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                    Brian Bình
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Vader speaks formally to Luke as an arrogant superior addressing an unknown young man. When he says "I am your father", he suddenly switches to the pronouns used by a father to his child. He continues addressing Luke as father to child until he dies. Luke continues speaking as a humble peasant addressing a mandarin until the next film when he finally tells Leia "he's my father". Then he speaks to Vader as a child to his father.

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                    • Tim_EagonT Tim_Eagon shared this topic on
                    • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                      Vader speaks formally to Luke as an arrogant superior addressing an unknown young man. When he says "I am your father", he suddenly switches to the pronouns used by a father to his child. He continues addressing Luke as father to child until he dies. Luke continues speaking as a humble peasant addressing a mandarin until the next film when he finally tells Leia "he's my father". Then he speaks to Vader as a child to his father.

                      Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                      Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                      Brian Bình
                      wrote last edited by
                      #15

                      When I say Vietnamese has a lot of pronouns, I'm not exaggerating. There are pronouns for almost every specific family relationship. Not just "aunt" or "uncle" but "the aunt who is my father's younger brother's wife". For some reason "parent's older sibling" is just one term though. Also "cousin" isn't really a thing: they're just "surname siblings" that are addressed like siblings.

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                      • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                        When I say Vietnamese has a lot of pronouns, I'm not exaggerating. There are pronouns for almost every specific family relationship. Not just "aunt" or "uncle" but "the aunt who is my father's younger brother's wife". For some reason "parent's older sibling" is just one term though. Also "cousin" isn't really a thing: they're just "surname siblings" that are addressed like siblings.

                        Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                        Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                        Brian Bình
                        wrote last edited by
                        #16

                        Vietnamese has pronouns that are only used in fiction, because they describe relationships that don't exist in the real world. Some are for feudal relationships that no longer exist in the modern world, but are still used in historical settings. Some are relationships that only exist in fiction.

                        There's a 2nd person ("you") pronoun for addressing talking animals in folktales or cartoons. This is different than the word used to talk to pets and farm animals that aren't expected to talk back.

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                        • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                          Vietnamese has pronouns that are only used in fiction, because they describe relationships that don't exist in the real world. Some are for feudal relationships that no longer exist in the modern world, but are still used in historical settings. Some are relationships that only exist in fiction.

                          There's a 2nd person ("you") pronoun for addressing talking animals in folktales or cartoons. This is different than the word used to talk to pets and farm animals that aren't expected to talk back.

                          Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                          Brian BìnhB This user is from outside of this forum
                          Brian Bình
                          wrote last edited by
                          #17

                          I watched the movie "300" in a cinema in Saigon with Vietnamese subtitles. They kept translating "you" as "khanh", but only when Leonidas spoke to his captain. I'd never encountered the word before, so I looked it up in my big unabridged dictionary when I got home. That's how a king says "you" when speaking to his favorite subject. It's a word for "you" which is only spoken by kings and only when speaking to one particular guy!

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                          • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                            I watched the movie "300" in a cinema in Saigon with Vietnamese subtitles. They kept translating "you" as "khanh", but only when Leonidas spoke to his captain. I'd never encountered the word before, so I looked it up in my big unabridged dictionary when I got home. That's how a king says "you" when speaking to his favorite subject. It's a word for "you" which is only spoken by kings and only when speaking to one particular guy!

                            NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                            NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                            Null
                            wrote last edited by
                            #18

                            @BrianBinh@dice.camp I can only imagine how much the translator nerded out when they had this chance to use this word.

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                            • Brian BìnhB Brian Bình

                              You've heard how "uppercase" & "lowercase" letters are called that because typesetters literally stored them in cases with the majuscules on top. Did you know that majuscule & miniscule letters are two different versions of the Latin alphabet? The ancients wrote in majuscule letters. That's right. THE ROMANS WROTE IN ALL CAPS LIKE AN ANGRY INTERNET COMMENT (when they weren't using Greek to look fancy and dignified). Miniscule letters came much later around the start of the Middle Ages.

                              NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                              NullN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Null
                              wrote last edited by
                              #19

                              @BrianBinh@dice.camp the context I’d like to add to this is that the Romans were not writing on paper - that hadn’t been invented in Europe yet, and vellum was too expensive. So for scratch writing ,They were writing most commonly on… WAX. They had wax tablets on sheets, which they would heat to ‘wipe clean’. This plus often carving in stone is why so many of those upper case Latin characters are big LINES. This persisted through to the Middle Ages.

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