Interesting breakdown by a guy who landed a successful crowd-funding campaign and wound up with what amounted to a finder's fee for the project #ttrpg
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@Taskerland and for once he didn't spent x thousands on art either
There are probably ways to save on printing if you were more experienced, but not so much that you'd claw a realistic amount back
@Printdevil His art spend was reasonable... I think that's where a lot of designers lose their shirts.
It's a lot of money for stuff which, in truth, adds very little value and it's positioned/justified as a USP in a marketplace where everyone spends big on art, effectively cancelling out the eye-grab advantage it might once have given.
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@Printdevil His art spend was reasonable... I think that's where a lot of designers lose their shirts.
It's a lot of money for stuff which, in truth, adds very little value and it's positioned/justified as a USP in a marketplace where everyone spends big on art, effectively cancelling out the eye-grab advantage it might once have given.
@Printdevil I wonder, looking at this, whether 'successful kickstarter' is really nothing more than a loss-leader - You lose your shirt on the initial print run but the publicity push gets you noticed enough that you can scrape back money on digital sales.
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@Printdevil I wonder, looking at this, whether 'successful kickstarter' is really nothing more than a loss-leader - You lose your shirt on the initial print run but the publicity push gets you noticed enough that you can scrape back money on digital sales.
@Taskerland The only person I know who persistently makes money on kickstarters used to work in a bank and keeps really sharp eye on the accounting. It's all art and cards stuff though, quite a tight creative domain, and he tends to make about £3000 per campaign, which to him, is hobbyist money.
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@Taskerland The only person I know who persistently makes money on kickstarters used to work in a bank and keeps really sharp eye on the accounting. It's all art and cards stuff though, quite a tight creative domain, and he tends to make about £3000 per campaign, which to him, is hobbyist money.
@Printdevil These are people with the kinds of skills that markets reward and none of them are rooted in gaming.
It's like the people with marketing degrees and graphic design practices who become incredibly visible despite offering very little.
The 5e space is completely dominated by those types.
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@Printdevil These are people with the kinds of skills that markets reward and none of them are rooted in gaming.
It's like the people with marketing degrees and graphic design practices who become incredibly visible despite offering very little.
The 5e space is completely dominated by those types.
@Taskerland It can't help that the reward level from Drivethru is so epically low, it pushes towards KS
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@Printdevil These are people with the kinds of skills that markets reward and none of them are rooted in gaming.
It's like the people with marketing degrees and graphic design practices who become incredibly visible despite offering very little.
The 5e space is completely dominated by those types.
@Taskerland I wonder is there a merit in trying to change the nomenclature and market positioning of indie gaming away from er... gaming, It would benefit from being sold in Waterstones as "Improvisational Mindfulness Horror paperbacks" vs trying to compete with 5ed.
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Interesting breakdown by a guy who landed a successful crowd-funding campaign and wound up with what amounted to a finder's fee for the project #ttrpg
This model is unsustainable and the more I learn about it, the more it feels like a form of ponzi scheme.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/1pezyn4/in_february_i_ran_a_10000_ttrpg_kickstarter_for/@Taskerland 10k on printing and shipping. There's why I'm sticking with PiY.
It's £8 for a hardback at the print shops, and comes with zero distribution problems.
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@Printdevil His art spend was reasonable... I think that's where a lot of designers lose their shirts.
It's a lot of money for stuff which, in truth, adds very little value and it's positioned/justified as a USP in a marketplace where everyone spends big on art, effectively cancelling out the eye-grab advantage it might once have given.
@Taskerland @Printdevil I as actually a little confused on the art spend. I don't see illustration as a line item expense. The campaign shows two people behind it - the writer/designer and the illustrator. Which makes it sound like the illustrator got the worst end of the deal being one of the creators of the project instead of just being commissioned.
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@Taskerland @Printdevil I as actually a little confused on the art spend. I don't see illustration as a line item expense. The campaign shows two people behind it - the writer/designer and the illustrator. Which makes it sound like the illustrator got the worst end of the deal being one of the creators of the project instead of just being commissioned.
@kevin Ah good catch... he mentions that he purchased stock art... I wonder whether the reason for the low art spend was that he had an in-house illustrator whose work didn't get factored into the spreadsheet? @Printdevil
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Interesting breakdown by a guy who landed a successful crowd-funding campaign and wound up with what amounted to a finder's fee for the project #ttrpg
This model is unsustainable and the more I learn about it, the more it feels like a form of ponzi scheme.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/1pezyn4/in_february_i_ran_a_10000_ttrpg_kickstarter_for/@Taskerland By contrast the new HMTW adventure isn't going the crowdfunding route. Granted, the game itself did so he's already got an audience.
Why did His Majesty the Worm skip the Kickstarter?
A preorder campaign gambit
Rascal News (www.rascal.news)
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@kevin Ah good catch... he mentions that he purchased stock art... I wonder whether the reason for the low art spend was that he had an in-house illustrator whose work didn't get factored into the spreadsheet? @Printdevil
@Taskerland There's a comment down the reddit about some of the art spend being in the previous year and not included, so the actual return is even worse
@kevin @Printdevil -
Interesting breakdown by a guy who landed a successful crowd-funding campaign and wound up with what amounted to a finder's fee for the project #ttrpg
This model is unsustainable and the more I learn about it, the more it feels like a form of ponzi scheme.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RPGdesign/comments/1pezyn4/in_february_i_ran_a_10000_ttrpg_kickstarter_for/@Taskerland The guy says his goal "was to make the game, not a living."
He says he makes a decent living wage from his day job and this is his hobby. His goal was to cover his costs, which he did.
Why so pejorative?
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@Taskerland The guy says his goal "was to make the game, not a living."
He says he makes a decent living wage from his day job and this is his hobby. His goal was to cover his costs, which he did.
Why so pejorative?
@strangequark I find it sad that people are getting sucked into the gears of this machine. A machine that leaves people out of pocket and their games unplayed.
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@strangequark I find it sad that people are getting sucked into the gears of this machine. A machine that leaves people out of pocket and their games unplayed.
@Taskerland I don't interpret him like that. He finished in the black and says "I'm actually pretty happy with the numbers, all things considered."
He says he used two distributors because "it gets my games to way more people than I could on my own". So it doesn't sound like his game is left unplayed.
I suppose people could be buying it and leaving it unplayed on their shelf, but based on my personal experience that never happens. Ever. At all.
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@Taskerland I don't interpret him like that. He finished in the black and says "I'm actually pretty happy with the numbers, all things considered."
He says he used two distributors because "it gets my games to way more people than I could on my own". So it doesn't sound like his game is left unplayed.
I suppose people could be buying it and leaving it unplayed on their shelf, but based on my personal experience that never happens. Ever. At all.
@strangequark You've never encountered gamers who buy stuff and then don't read it?
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@strangequark You've never encountered gamers who buy stuff and then don't read it?
@Taskerland Never. If my wife tells you otherwise, she is lying.
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@Taskerland Never. If my wife tells you otherwise, she is lying.
@strangequark To be perfectly frank, I accept that this is very much a 'me thing' - I am very sensitive to unequal power dynamics and outcomes.
Most normal people look at these types of outcomes and shrug their shoulders because that's the world but I think of the nice lad who wrote a really good CoC adventure and it took him years to break even while Chaosium wetted their beaks on every sale and I just feel quite sad.
It is annoying, but it is the way I am unfortunately.
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@strangequark To be perfectly frank, I accept that this is very much a 'me thing' - I am very sensitive to unequal power dynamics and outcomes.
Most normal people look at these types of outcomes and shrug their shoulders because that's the world but I think of the nice lad who wrote a really good CoC adventure and it took him years to break even while Chaosium wetted their beaks on every sale and I just feel quite sad.
It is annoying, but it is the way I am unfortunately.
@Taskerland I understand. That's not something new or unique to RPGs. Publishers have always had a lot of power and writers have historically stayed poor unless their works become wildly popular during their lifetime.
