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  3. Adult game developer’s PayPal funds held for over a month despite being legitimately sold on Steam [80k GBP]

Adult game developer’s PayPal funds held for over a month despite being legitimately sold on Steam [80k GBP]

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved PC Gaming
pcgaming
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  • S spacenoodle@lemmy.world

    PayPal can and will steal your money because fuck you, that’s why, and you’re left with basically zero recourse.

    BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
    BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
    BlackLaZoR
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    Use crypto wherever you can.

    1 Reply Last reply
    8
    • Z This user is from outside of this forum
      Z This user is from outside of this forum
      zorque@lemmy.world
      wrote on last edited by
      #11

      Are there more legal protections for crypto payment processors than traditional payment processors? My understanding is that there’s less regulation in the crypto space these days.

      BlackLaZoRB 1 Reply Last reply
      21
      • S Sonalder

        Bitcoin and Monero fixes this!

        S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        spacenoodle@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        Oh boy, less accountability!

        S 1 Reply Last reply
        23
        • Z zorque@lemmy.world

          Are there more legal protections for crypto payment processors than traditional payment processors? My understanding is that there’s less regulation in the crypto space these days.

          BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
          BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
          BlackLaZoR
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          Cryptocurrencies themselves are automated, self sustaining systems - no regulation applies at that level at all. In reality crypto “payment processors” provide services of instant exchange to regular currencies, and aren’t even mandatory (but they’re very convenient).

          So regulation applies, but only to optional middleman that perform conversion and send regular currency to the merchant

          1 Reply Last reply
          9
          • Z This user is from outside of this forum
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            zorque@lemmy.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #14

            So when dealing with volume purchases via a secondary store front (as established in the article) doesn’t need any kind of intercession from Steam or another processor to deal with any and all purchases? It’s all completely autonomous with no intervention needed by anyone at all?

            BlackLaZoRB 1 Reply Last reply
            6
            • Z zorque@lemmy.world

              So when dealing with volume purchases via a secondary store front (as established in the article) doesn’t need any kind of intercession from Steam or another processor to deal with any and all purchases? It’s all completely autonomous with no intervention needed by anyone at all?

              BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
              BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
              BlackLaZoR
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              As long as merchant doesn’t need to convert from crypto to regular currency, no third party is involved in the transaction, it’s a direct P2P system - in other words - perfect digital cash

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • Z This user is from outside of this forum
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                zorque@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #16

                So you just need to say “I give this person .001 bitcoin” and they magically get it? That’s wild to me.

                BlackLaZoRB S 2 Replies Last reply
                3
                • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                  So you just need to say “I give this person .001 bitcoin” and they magically get it? That’s wild to me.

                  BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
                  BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
                  BlackLaZoR
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #17

                  Well, you take their address, sign a message with your private key saying .001 bitcoin goes there and propagate it over the network. But in very simple terms yep, bitcoins magically land on their address. Whole thing sustains itself on economic incentives and cryptography, without any central authority

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Z This user is from outside of this forum
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                    zorque@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    So there is a network and backbone to it. And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game” especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

                    The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

                    BlackLaZoRB S 2 Replies Last reply
                    2
                    • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                      So there is a network and backbone to it. And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game” especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

                      The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

                      BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
                      BlackLaZoRB This user is from outside of this forum
                      BlackLaZoR
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      So there is a network and backbone to it

                      Yes, it’s a permissionless P2P network.

                      And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game”

                      Signing and sending transaction is exactly it. Transaction says that you send your bitcoins to an address controlled by the other person.

                      especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

                      Crypto doesn’t ensure you get the product. Like with real cash, other party might just run away with money

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Z This user is from outside of this forum
                        Z This user is from outside of this forum
                        zorque@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #20

                        Crypto doesn’t ensure you get the product. Like with real cash, other party might just run away with money

                        Which is why intermediaries exist and why crypto isn’t in any way a solution for the problem this entire post is about. And why bringing it up randomly is complete tech bro wankery.

                        S BlackLaZoRB 2 Replies Last reply
                        2
                        • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                          This post did not contain any content.
                          cosmicturtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.comC This user is from outside of this forum
                          cosmicturtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.comC This user is from outside of this forum
                          cosmicturtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #21

                          Another friendly reminder that PayPal is not a bank. They don’t carry FDIC insurance. They aren’t regulated like a bank and you agree that they can do fuck all to your money at any time for any reason or no reason.

                          In other words,

                          STOP USING PAYPAL!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          54
                          • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                            This post did not contain any content.
                            ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                            ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                            ook@discuss.tchncs.de
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #22

                            This is now the millionth time that there are news that PayPal can and will do this and that there is almost 0 legal action you can take.

                            Why oh why on Earth do you still keep money stored there? I understand using it for transactions, sometimes it is the only way but there is no need to keep the money on it, or is there?

                            At this point, sorry, your own fault for trusting PayPal.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            30
                            • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                              So you just need to say “I give this person .001 bitcoin” and they magically get it? That’s wild to me.

                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca
                              #23

                              Yes, simply put, that’s how it works. You should read the whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

                              The first sentence:

                              A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • S spacenoodle@lemmy.world

                                Oh boy, less accountability!

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #24

                                All transactions are public and verifiable. How is that less accountability?

                                S 1 Reply Last reply
                                3
                                • S slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca

                                  All transactions are public and verifiable. How is that less accountability?

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  spacenoodle@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #25

                                  And what recourse do you have?

                                  S ZeroOneM 2 Replies Last reply
                                  4
                                  • S spacenoodle@lemmy.world

                                    And what recourse do you have?

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #26

                                    More than using Paypal, obviously. Depending on the amount, you can take them to small claims court, or get lawyers involved for larger sums. The great thing is that they cannot claim you didn’t pay, and you have proof of services rendered, or products purchased. And if you don’t trust the merchant, don’t buy from them.

                                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                                      So there is a network and backbone to it. And you need to do something more than “I give this person a bitcoins for my game” especially when working through a separate storefront. Both to ensure that the person receives their game and you receive their currency.

                                      The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      S This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Sonalder
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #27

                                      So there is a network and backbone to it.

                                      Yes, Bitcoin is not a currency, it’s an open permissionless network of trust secured not by access right managment and opacity but game theory and past energy. Very useful to build currencies. I recommend you Andreas Antonopoulos work, his content age very well and everything is under CreativeCommons. A great video to start is : What is Bitcoin and why does it matters?

                                      The problem with current transactions isn’t the money itself, it’s the services that use that currency.

                                      It really depend where you live. For Venezualian, Lebanese, Turkish and many more people there is huge problem with their currencies and banking services. Also in Africa many ex-french colonies are forced to use Franc CFA which is basically an economic-leash by the french government. We can debate on the many issues with the USD currency but these are little (for now at least) compared to others.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • Z zorque@lemmy.world

                                        Crypto doesn’t ensure you get the product. Like with real cash, other party might just run away with money

                                        Which is why intermediaries exist and why crypto isn’t in any way a solution for the problem this entire post is about. And why bringing it up randomly is complete tech bro wankery.

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Sonalder
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #28

                                        You know you can build an escrow out of a smart-contract (even on Bitcoin) using multi-sig to ensure both parties are satisfied ?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • S slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca

                                          More than using Paypal, obviously. Depending on the amount, you can take them to small claims court, or get lawyers involved for larger sums. The great thing is that they cannot claim you didn’t pay, and you have proof of services rendered, or products purchased. And if you don’t trust the merchant, don’t buy from them.

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          spacenoodle@lemmy.world
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #29

                                          LOL. You’ve done this, I presume?

                                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                                          2

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