Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
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@Purple I was lucky to be in a project where this effect was somewhat subdued.
Outside of that context:
I just got started scrolling through the docs to configure something specific, only for someone else to pose a question to a chatbot, which of course made something up.
A senior colleague was trying to get a camera drone to launch, I open the manual online, he started talking into his phone (guess who got the right answer, though the LLM nonsense was tried first).
There’s more.@Purple so yeah, you are not alone.
I used to think my (now previous) employer mostly had a staff that actually somewhat cared about the craft. I am not so sure anymore.
On the contrary, I more and more get questioned on or have to justify my decision to avoid these tools wherever I can (sure, being able to do so is a privilege, depending on current pressure at wherever one works to feed and house themselves). -
Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple it's also happening to senior academics!
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@pounce We will definitely experience the consequences of this in 5-10 years from now
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple
yes and I got fired shortly after probably because I was not "productive" enough compared to them -
Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple at large, i see this as capitalism digging its own grave, unfortunately at the expense of individuals.
what's a good argument against "we all should use ai to solve problems of a business faster" given that garbage throwaway code has silently been acceptaed across the board?
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@Purple at large, i see this as capitalism digging its own grave, unfortunately at the expense of individuals.
what's a good argument against "we all should use ai to solve problems of a business faster" given that garbage throwaway code has silently been acceptaed across the board?
The frustrating part is, in order to be able to convince someone they need to have a deep understanding of what output the AI is producing.
To the lazy or unsuspecting eye its output looks superb and perfect. But only if you have a reasonably deep understanding of the engineering challenge you've asked it to solve, you will understand it's more often garbage than not.
I don't see a way to win this battle, other than finding a company that doesn't fall for AI and keeps producing high quality services, even though they may take a little longer to build than competitors. Eventually others will start to collapse under the technical debt
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@Purple
You are absolutely right.Lots of people are blindly trusting AI tools and completely bypass their critical thinking braincells.
I am glad to be the only engineer in my team and thus do not have to deal with people like that. Even though i have access to a few AI tools, i will never have them make engineering decisions for me.
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To be honest the making process sometimes frustrates me, but I don't see how you could be proud of what you have made if it's just hastily thrown together by a chatbot!
I'm proud of the things I've made, because I've put my own brain to use to create something I had in mind. I thought it worked this way for others too, but like you say I think we might be in the minority here
@Purple @kitcat To say nothing of when you've faced a problem, figured out a fix, and can *actually explain why that fix is correct*, and *apply the same reasoning in other situations*. Not just the same fix, but the same *reasoning*.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned like that, but actually having figured something out brings me joy. Even if it is stuff that lots of other people know. Learning how the pieces fit together to bring the result I get out of the thing I made.
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@Purple @kitcat To say nothing of when you've faced a problem, figured out a fix, and can *actually explain why that fix is correct*, and *apply the same reasoning in other situations*. Not just the same fix, but the same *reasoning*.
Maybe I'm old-fashioned like that, but actually having figured something out brings me joy. Even if it is stuff that lots of other people know. Learning how the pieces fit together to bring the result I get out of the thing I made.
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple As someone who basically refuses to use AI for anything, it's likely I'm unaware of just how much the use of it has pervaded people's working behaviors.
My understanding is that AI and LLM's are meant to be a tool. As with any tool, if used properly, it can be helpful and effective in completing a task. But there's a reason that people are educated on how to do things manually before they're allowed to use tools: there needs to be that sense of intuition that informs a person whether something seems correct or doesn't.
What you're describing, seems to be an outsourcing of critical thinking to these tools. It's like putting someone in the driver's seat of a self-driving car and now they're panicking when they have to take manual control.
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple I think people are burned out and are just find AI easier to just continue earning money and do less.
source: me, coding makes me wanna kms
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@Purple I think people are burned out and are just find AI easier to just continue earning money and do less.
source: me, coding makes me wanna kms
@Purple I think there would be less stories like these if the industry was more focused on just programming rather than having overengineered cringe solutions to suck off investors, so people do things that are actually interesting and have a real impact for the good rather than putting stress, pressure and making engineers just hate their hobby
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple using AI is just like managing a fairly incompetent Junior. Welcome to management. This is the fear and dread and uncertainty that you feel for the first couple of years after somebody has put you in charge of a software team. Where productivity can't be managed, and the results are not really within your control. How long do you wait to fire your AI assistance and go looking for another?
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple I think it’s more exposing than changing.
AI coding won’t make you able to do something you can’t do, it can give you code you must understand and verify.
It can’t replace someone with knowledge, but it can, if used sensibly, augment some parts. Like boring refactoring and generating some simple boring stuff.
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple same here, and I hate it so much, it's beyond words
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple I haven't seen it at these extremes in AI yet (with seniors).
What I have seen is that someone pushed a huge upgrade out in record time, one that would normally require careful consideration and planning.
Turned out they instructed an LLM to do the upgrade and not much else, because I later spotted some pitfalls mentioned in the upgrade guide (and not a long one, either).
To me, LLMs are tools; you can use them, but they do not absolve you of your responsibility to at least try to do your due diligence as a programmer (which goes beyond writing code and shipping it).
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@swift I sometimes end up talking to them about it, and they seem to be aware AI is sometimes wrong... But yet they keep using it for literally everything.
It's almost like an addict who knows the addiction might be hurting them, but can't stop using.
I can see the damage it's doing to the long term maintainability of our environment and platform too
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple it is not just you. My former threw fits when I spelled out very clearly that it did not work, would not work, would cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars they insisted we didn't have, and not only that, but every one of the problems from the junior was because they didn't listen, just plugged shit into ChatGPT, and the others were too lazy to actually review it.
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@jackemled @Purple thing is, I'm not sure they're even using it personally all that much. They've actively bought into the idea of doing the work to integrate into systems they build for clients because of The Possibilities, the New Capabilities it unlocks. And I just don't know how to reconcile people I know are otherwise smart, conscientious, environmentally considerate, etc. with what seems so clearly to me to be blatant snake oil.
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Is anyone else experience this thing where your fellow senior engineers seem to be lobotomised by AI?
I've had 4 different senior engineers in the last week come up with absolutely insane changes or code, that they were instructed to do by AI. Things that if you used your brain for a few minutes you should realise just don't work.
They also rarely can explain why they make these changes or what the code actually does.
I feel like I'm absolutely going insane, and it also makes me not able to trust anyones answers or analysis' because I /know/ there is a high chance they should asked AI and wrote it off as their own.
I think the effect AI has had on our industry's knowledge is really significant, and it's honestly very scary.
@Purple I’ve been feeling like the whole industry has been going crazy for years, now, and the AI step is just the latest of many bananapants steps towards oblivion. But it’s certainly a big one.
Like, for ages the software industry has been high on its own farts about self-importance and trying to justify itself as the source of its self-made problems and a sinkhole of outsized valuation. And all for what?
