If there's anything that illustrated the hollowness of the Democratic Party as an effective opposition for me, it's this.
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@pluralistic If it's from politicians that have been doing the fight the whole time, like the one I got from Rep. Maxwell Frost, I'm more than happy to contribute more if I'm not maxed out. If it is spineless Do Nothing Democrats like Chuck Schumer then fuck no. I only give to people that are doing the fighting not the people feathering their nests.
@hankg @pluralistic
Right...?
Like, are we talking about the same Dems who had FOUR-fucking-YEARS to prosecute the Orange Mussolini but instead yawned while the Supreme Court of the Land gave him a golden ticket of immunity...? Those Dems?Yeah. No.
️ 
️ The Dems are complicit: Whether by design or incompetence.
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@hankg @pluralistic
Right...?
Like, are we talking about the same Dems who had FOUR-fucking-YEARS to prosecute the Orange Mussolini but instead yawned while the Supreme Court of the Land gave him a golden ticket of immunity...? Those Dems?Yeah. No.
️ ️ The Dems are complicit: Whether by design or incompetence.
@clintruin
Yah, but that's the party that tries to model the correct behavior and hope for the best, and if they had gone bare metal and thrown a ton of these guys in jail, there would have been an outcry from 90% of the media, the population, and the talking headsHere's the issue - if you solve a problem before it becomes huge, vanishingly few people will see the value and thank you, but the majority will loudly condemn what you did, because the bad thing didn't happen
@hankg @pluralistic -
@clintruin
Yah, but that's the party that tries to model the correct behavior and hope for the best, and if they had gone bare metal and thrown a ton of these guys in jail, there would have been an outcry from 90% of the media, the population, and the talking headsHere's the issue - if you solve a problem before it becomes huge, vanishingly few people will see the value and thank you, but the majority will loudly condemn what you did, because the bad thing didn't happen
@hankg @pluralistic@mloxton @hankg @pluralistic
Congratulations.
The Bad Thing is now happening.
*slow clap*
"Everything is ultimately peculiar and ultimately ridiculous."
-- Thomas Ligotti
#doomed -
@mloxton @hankg @pluralistic
Congratulations.
The Bad Thing is now happening.
*slow clap*
"Everything is ultimately peculiar and ultimately ridiculous."
-- Thomas Ligotti
#doomedSo this is the thing that burns me - people who fantasize about what should happen in a just universe and then blame the ONLY group of people who try to do the right thing but are ineffective. The dems didn't have the clean slate you pretend, Mueller was ALWAYS going to do a slow shuffle to nowhere, and nobody was going to do a rocket docket and throw white conservatives in jail.
So slow clap all you want, Dems didn't create this mess, and shaking a fist at them is dumb
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So this is the thing that burns me - people who fantasize about what should happen in a just universe and then blame the ONLY group of people who try to do the right thing but are ineffective. The dems didn't have the clean slate you pretend, Mueller was ALWAYS going to do a slow shuffle to nowhere, and nobody was going to do a rocket docket and throw white conservatives in jail.
So slow clap all you want, Dems didn't create this mess, and shaking a fist at them is dumb
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@clintruin
Fuck no.
Discordant music and someone screaming at me is not going to get any sort of message to me. -
@clintruin
Fuck no.
Discordant music and someone screaming at me is not going to get any sort of message to me.***Important***
MATTHEW, WE NEED 5 DOLLARS RIGHT NOW TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE TO COME BACK TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE YOUR STAID DEFENSE ISNT WORKING. 7X MATCH UNTIL NOON PACIFIC TIME!
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***Important***
MATTHEW, WE NEED 5 DOLLARS RIGHT NOW TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE TO COME BACK TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE YOUR STAID DEFENSE ISNT WORKING. 7X MATCH UNTIL NOON PACIFIC TIME!
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***MATTHEW, WE NEED TO TALK***
WE KNOW YOU CARE ABOUT DEMOCRACY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE WHICH IS WHY WE ARE DOING A 10X MATCH ON DONATIONS OVER $50 UNTIL NOON PACIFIC.
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***MATTHEW, WE NEED TO TALK***
WE KNOW YOU CARE ABOUT DEMOCRACY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE WHICH IS WHY WE ARE DOING A 10X MATCH ON DONATIONS OVER $50 UNTIL NOON PACIFIC.
Look, yelling childish stuff at me is not going to make any sort of argument.
If you want a good conversation about the role of money in US politics, the effect that "Citizens United" has on voting, and how the entire "money-centric" culture in the US drives towards fascism, then sure, let's discuss that.
But shouting really basic stuff at me is just going to make me think you are an imbecile
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Look, yelling childish stuff at me is not going to make any sort of argument.
If you want a good conversation about the role of money in US politics, the effect that "Citizens United" has on voting, and how the entire "money-centric" culture in the US drives towards fascism, then sure, let's discuss that.
But shouting really basic stuff at me is just going to make me think you are an imbecile
Why is that method good enough for Democrats as a primary form of outreach about current political events and situation then?
I can pull more texts from my phone that Democrats have sent me if my point isn't made, but you're more than smart enough to connect the dots and how it relates to the OP, and you even said this method is imbecilic.
But not too imbecilic for Democrats, I guess. Have a good one, until next time.
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Why is that method good enough for Democrats as a primary form of outreach about current political events and situation then?
I can pull more texts from my phone that Democrats have sent me if my point isn't made, but you're more than smart enough to connect the dots and how it relates to the OP, and you even said this method is imbecilic.
But not too imbecilic for Democrats, I guess. Have a good one, until next time.
BECAUSE IT WORKS!
Your representative spends as much or more time in office trying to raise funds than doing their job because, as I have fucking said, money -> campaigning -> turnout
That is because American voters see voting as a kind of dating game or buying a pumpkin rather than a duty.
As long as large numbers are disenfranchised and even larger numbers don't bother voting, money drives elections and politicians always have their hand outBoth parties have a hand out
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BECAUSE IT WORKS!
Your representative spends as much or more time in office trying to raise funds than doing their job because, as I have fucking said, money -> campaigning -> turnout
That is because American voters see voting as a kind of dating game or buying a pumpkin rather than a duty.
As long as large numbers are disenfranchised and even larger numbers don't bother voting, money drives elections and politicians always have their hand outBoth parties have a hand out
It doesnt work well enough given we are in a thread about how alienating it is to would-be-voters, into not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them. In the aftermath of an electoral loss where people got more of these messages from Democrats than any other message, even when self selecting information.
Do you really wanna talk about 'whale hunting' as a form of fundraising for a political party, in an ecosystem where most of us are not whales and respond poorly to it?
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It doesnt work well enough given we are in a thread about how alienating it is to would-be-voters, into not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them. In the aftermath of an electoral loss where people got more of these messages from Democrats than any other message, even when self selecting information.
Do you really wanna talk about 'whale hunting' as a form of fundraising for a political party, in an ecosystem where most of us are not whales and respond poorly to it?
"not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them"
And there is the bigger reason we are where we are. Yeah, the constant fundraising is irritating and alienating, but not fundraising is a death spiral for politicians. If they don't spend half or more of their time fundraising, they will be toast the next time. If you don't have huge corporate and billionaire donors like Reps, you either constantly beg individuals, or flame out
Because American voters treat it like dating
/2 -
"not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them"
And there is the bigger reason we are where we are. Yeah, the constant fundraising is irritating and alienating, but not fundraising is a death spiral for politicians. If they don't spend half or more of their time fundraising, they will be toast the next time. If you don't have huge corporate and billionaire donors like Reps, you either constantly beg individuals, or flame out
Because American voters treat it like dating
/2... and that's EXACTLY what you just did. You posed it as "not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them", like you are picking a cabbage or dating, not as YOUR duty to identify the best candidate and voting for them.
As long as tons of voters are prepared to skip voting or vote third party because the least bad politician wasn't up to their standards, we will keep sliding towards fascism.
The problem isn't dems, it's fascists, corporate/billionaire funding, and voters
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... and that's EXACTLY what you just did. You posed it as "not trusting Democrats enough to vote for them", like you are picking a cabbage or dating, not as YOUR duty to identify the best candidate and voting for them.
As long as tons of voters are prepared to skip voting or vote third party because the least bad politician wasn't up to their standards, we will keep sliding towards fascism.
The problem isn't dems, it's fascists, corporate/billionaire funding, and voters
Part of the issue with voters is that youre insisting they carry some kind of duality of having sincere political and partsan beliefs and then disposing of them at the drop of the hat to win. And not knowing what will and guessing based on polling, and then losing anyway.
Despite the argument about 'getting what they want exactly' and holding out if they dont, almost all electoral participation is a leap of faith where nobody gets what they want...but their faith isnt utterly humiliated along the way. It kinda is now. The vector and thrust are not going the same direction. As much as this framing might piss everyone off, faith/trust/vector/thrust elementally matter no matter the arguments.
This is why one of the other planks of Democratic Party outreach, highlighting deliverables and objective fulfillment falls flat no matter how much they do it - theyre highlighting how much youll never get what you want and should be fine with that, because look over there at that!
One of the funnier asides is that Democrats need voters to be sophisticated enough to reject the GOP, but not so sophisticated they question or lose faith in the party.
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Part of the issue with voters is that youre insisting they carry some kind of duality of having sincere political and partsan beliefs and then disposing of them at the drop of the hat to win. And not knowing what will and guessing based on polling, and then losing anyway.
Despite the argument about 'getting what they want exactly' and holding out if they dont, almost all electoral participation is a leap of faith where nobody gets what they want...but their faith isnt utterly humiliated along the way. It kinda is now. The vector and thrust are not going the same direction. As much as this framing might piss everyone off, faith/trust/vector/thrust elementally matter no matter the arguments.
This is why one of the other planks of Democratic Party outreach, highlighting deliverables and objective fulfillment falls flat no matter how much they do it - theyre highlighting how much youll never get what you want and should be fine with that, because look over there at that!
One of the funnier asides is that Democrats need voters to be sophisticated enough to reject the GOP, but not so sophisticated they question or lose faith in the party.
@ciggysmokebringer @mloxton Honestly, I wish more of the principled dems would get in at the primaries.
My local one had only 7% participation. So that's 7% of the party getting in on picking who the candidate in the fall is. Which yeah, great way to end up with a great moat between primary voters and general voters in what they want.
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@ciggysmokebringer @mloxton Honestly, I wish more of the principled dems would get in at the primaries.
My local one had only 7% participation. So that's 7% of the party getting in on picking who the candidate in the fall is. Which yeah, great way to end up with a great moat between primary voters and general voters in what they want.
@squishymage42 @ciggysmokebringer @mloxton I was a member of a small political discussion group, about 20 of us. We decided to pick local candidates in the primaries and support them. We chose the leftier ones, and every one we supported won. Big swing left in a state with a lot of DINOs. That's how you do it, not by snarking at small-donor fundraising.
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@squishymage42 @ciggysmokebringer @mloxton I was a member of a small political discussion group, about 20 of us. We decided to pick local candidates in the primaries and support them. We chose the leftier ones, and every one we supported won. Big swing left in a state with a lot of DINOs. That's how you do it, not by snarking at small-donor fundraising.
@jhavok @ciggysmokebringer @mloxton And hey, when you get small local races and experience and name recognition behind someone and THEN add that small donor fundraising, you get cool candidates.
(But leadership sticking around way too long and basically throttling any new growth in downticket races is a problem in a LOT OF PLACES not just national)
