The last 30 years of Israeli state policy after the Oslo accords has resulted in facts on the ground (Israeli phrasing, not mine) to the tune of 700k Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

Which is wrong.

As the various calls for two states invariably ignore the Israeli facts on the ground, and do not propose any realistic vision for undoing them, at this stage they are merely promoting the creation of a Bantustan within the existing apartheid framework.

Anyone who actually agrees with the two state solution agrees that the borders go back to 1967, and everyone on both sides will have a right to return.

In other words, the israeli facts on the ground have killed off the possibility of a two state solution, where Palestine would be an actual state. This means there are only two options: A) a continuation of the apartheid regime of the present, potentially with a Palestinian collaborationist Banstustan, and with various degrees of Israeli perpetrated genocide and ethnic cleansing thrown in during the inevitable flare-ups of violence.

B) a plurinational post-apartheid democratic state with equal rights for all nationalities and religions from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.

The chance for a Palestinian state is not gone, and Israel is not alone in making that harder. Even if you ignore Israelis and Palestinians, plenty of other groups don’t want peace and sabotage it when it is close.

Neither one of your solutions is viable, and it isn’t that black and white.

I guess the third option is for Israel to self-ethnically cleanse the settlers from the West Bank, but that sounds even more outlandish than the supposedly idealistic option B.

This is not helpful or useful in this conversation.

There used to be an phrase that Israel can be “large, Jewish, democratic, but can only pick 2”. Over the last 30 years since Oslo, successive Israeli governments, more or less dominated by the Israeli Right, and basically by Netanyahu, has forced the choice of “Large”. So now the Israelis have to pick between Zionism and Democracy.

At least you can admit it isn’t all Israelis.

Has fighting?

All other occupations ended thanks to fighting. Are you denying palestinian right to fight occupation force

In what world is this “Palestinians fighting occupation forces”?

Are you saying that Hamas is equal to Palestinians?

Israel is not an occupying force?

I am not wasting further time with you.

Because you are a zionist under cover pretending to be neutral that has no more propaganda to spew

Whatever you say bud.

This explain really why the question of israel right to exists propaganda talking point https://youtube.com/shorts/k12E7LuD2_4

Which couldn’t happen without ethenic cleansing and local people had the right to oppose the idea created by foreigners

It’s just self determination

But international law is more like “is recognized”, if no one recognizes your claim then there isn’t much you can do

Zionism is a fascist ideology based upon building an ethno nation states wherein those of other ethnicities are expelled or exterminated.

When was this from, and what did he mean by that exactly? The context matters.

He’s been way harder on Israel than Trudeau ever was.

I mean, we’re not at the point where they even have a say in it. They’re busy struggling to survive because Israelis don’t accept their right to exist and actually have American hardware to impose their will with.

Ah yes, might makes right. Thank you for abandoning a pretence of the moral highground.

It’s true. We’ll see how that goes over the next few decades for you.

Why do other ethnic and religious groups exist in modern day Israel if they were all supposed to be expelled or exterminated?

I agree, Israel has become a major problem. That does not change the problems that exist on the Palestinian side. Things can be wrong simultaneously.

Reading this again, I see you’re not a Zionist but just a person interested in nuance and the actual truth here. That’s good, the source is doing the thing where you cut out a soundbite and make rage bait out of it.

So what’s the solution here? Both sides are human, and will harbour grudges and gravitate to ideologies that legitimise them. Peace has been imposed under similar situations before.

What will happen is a totally different question. A successful and very ironic genocide seems most likely.

Reading this again, I see you’re not a Zionist but just a person interested in nuance and the actual truth here. That’s good, the source is doing the thing where you cut out a soundbite and make rage bait out of it.

Thank you for understanding where I am coming from.

So what’s the solution here? Both sides are human, and will harbour grudges and gravitate to ideologies that legitimise them. Peace has been imposed under similar situations before.

I think possible solutions get far more complicated the longer everything is allowed to go on.

If I was given the power of decision I would have international boots on the ground, disarm all parties and security would be the responsibility of the international third parties, every single person who committed a crime must be brought before the courts and charged from all sides of this, an extensive deprogramming and education program to de-radicalize the populations, at which point each side will be given the ability to set up their own systems of government and be given more freedoms from the international community regarding personal defense as each state demonstrates its good faith in moving into the international community and following international law. Both states will be recognized by the international community at large, and I believe it is the responsibility of all Governments involved to fund reparations for the civilians who have been impacted or displaced, as well as a right to return for every single person.

Now I know this is an incredibly tall, and even seemingly impossible order. At the end of the day this is the only way I see lasting peace when considering the long and bloody history of this conflict. As you pointed out peace has been imposed before and not lasted, but I think a big mistake is it wasn’t done correctly because it did not address those deep wounds and scars within the communities, or the radicalization present in the populations.

The clip is linked. He’s talking about wanting a Palestinian state that’s pro Israel and pro Israeli flourishing.

I guess he means a state that’s ok with illegal settlements and apartheid treatment.

Maybe he means one that’ll back up Israel’s imperialist and aggressive wars in the region.