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  3. Danielle Smith to striking teachers: Go back to school for classroom concerns to be addressed

Danielle Smith to striking teachers: Go back to school for classroom concerns to be addressed

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  • acargitzT acargitz

    they give them breaks on their own taxes and royalties.

    Even easier then. Get them to pay their fair share.

    The rest of your post I chalk up to oil&gas propaganda. Alberta’s economy would not need Oil and Gas to stay afloat if they hadn’t been institutionally captured by these climate killing ghouls and had diversified their economy. Like honestly, this is just Big Tobacco but worse, because they are not polluting just lungs, but the entire planetary biosphere, and you’re going to seriously make that argument? They are evil psychopaths, just like Big Tobacco, profiting off of the death and misery of others.

    And there is no reason whatsoever that it should be so. Alberta has a fantastic geography for renewables. What Quebec is for hydroelectricity they could be for wind and solar. But instead they keep licking psycho boot. Fuck that. Pay your god damn teachers.

    L This user is from outside of this forum
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    lovecanada@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #39

    Well, those “ghouls” (seriously?) not only keep AB afloat, they make enough money so that we dont have to pay sales tax, which is a huge benefit to all Albertans. You only have to travel to other provinces to realize there is a MASSIVE difference to your wallet when you’re only paying 5% GST instead of an additional 7 to 10% PST on top. That literally makes my life better every single day.

    Secondly, those “ghouls” (eye roll) also provide a LOT of very well paying jobs in AB which is why we are a have province instead of a have not province with the highest per capita incomes (over $96,400) in Canada. I dont work in O and G directly but my son in laws do, and the people who use my services do, so O and G very directly enhances the lives of my family. Solar/wind/other powers are nice but they dont provide great incomes.

    Thirdly I absolutely reject the whole ‘climate killing’ virtual signalling of those who decry O and G because I know that Canada only emits 1.5% of the worlds GHG’s and the hypocrites who point a finger at O and G would not consider actually taking action against the 98.5% emitters, specifically China and the US. Have you stopped buying goods from China? Have you stopped traveling to the US or buying any goods from the US til they clean up their act? If you have, great, but 99% of Canadians haven’t and they dont actually give a crap, they just like to point fingers at O and G and yell about the ‘climate’.

    Its far easier to point the finger at the thimble of pollution coming from Canada than it is to actually do something concrete about the shiploads and truckloads of pollution coming from the places where you cause it by buying all their goods. Take the plank out of your own eye and I’ll take your argument seriously.

    acargitzT 1 Reply Last reply
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    • H hacksaw@lemmy.ca

      They said this strike was about class size limits and you said the problem is too complicated for simple class size limits, disagreeing with the union position.

      Do you really think the teachers asking for class size limits don’t understand the nuance you pointed out? Do you think you’re the only one who understands the complexity of the situation. And yet they’re all asking for class size limits anyways, because although it’s imperfect it’s better than the current approach.

      I don’t see where you’re confused. When you respond against a statement you’re disagreeing with it, as I’m disagreeing with you. Stop pretending context doesn’t matter and each of your statements should be taken and debated independently. That’s nonsense!

      L This user is from outside of this forum
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      lovecanada@lemmy.ca
      wrote on last edited by lovecanada@lemmy.ca
      #40

      I was explaining the issue for the NON educators here my friend. Im an ex teacher and a retired principal. My son is a principal. My wife is a teacher. Two of my daughter in laws are teachers. My father was a teacher. I GET IT.

      I was trying to explain the complexity of the situation for those who’ve never been in a classroom and don’t understand that you can’t just say “Cap class sizes” and be done with it because it’s not that simple.

      I read what the ATA was proposing about class sizes and it was quite logical and reasonable in my opinion and they did propose doing it over time in a graduated way, so I’m not sure why the gov pushed back so hard, still trying to research the arguments on both sides.

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      • Maple EngineerM Maple Engineer

        Has Danielle Smith ever had an original thought or is she just pulling everything she says out of the MAGA playbook?

        Reopen the government Get back to work and we can negotiate to protect healthcare for millions of Americans you concerns. - - MAGA Mike Johnston Danielle Smith

        D This user is from outside of this forum
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        definitemaybe@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by definitemaybe@lemmy.ca
        #41

        Just wanted to throw out there that class size and complexity matters a lot.

        I taught in an Alberta public high school. I had a class of 47 students. And this was a split Math 20-3/20-4 class. Over ⅓ of the class had IEPs, and another ⅓ (at least) should have had IEPs, but they’d fallen through the cracks of the system and didn’t have paperwork on file to support a designation.

        20-3 and 20-4 have virtually 0 curricular overlap, btw. I feel badly for the -4 kiddos in that class—they got almost no attention from me. It just wasn’t possible. The one EA in the class did what she could to help them, thankfully.

        I got reprimanded by my admin for that class, too, since a lowkey fight broke out (nobody was hurt) in that class and I didn’t notice for about half a minute.

        I left the province and haven’t regretted it for a second.

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        • Maple EngineerM Maple Engineer

          Has Danielle Smith ever had an original thought or is she just pulling everything she says out of the MAGA playbook?

          Reopen the government Get back to work and we can negotiate to protect healthcare for millions of Americans you concerns. - - MAGA Mike Johnston Danielle Smith

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
          Swordgeek
          wrote on last edited by
          #42

          Marlaina Danielle Smith is a Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi 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Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi

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          • Maple EngineerM Maple Engineer

            Has Danielle Smith ever had an original thought or is she just pulling everything she says out of the MAGA playbook?

            Reopen the government Get back to work and we can negotiate to protect healthcare for millions of Americans you concerns. - - MAGA Mike Johnston Danielle Smith

            L This user is from outside of this forum
            L This user is from outside of this forum
            leastaction@lemmy.ca
            wrote on last edited by
            #43

            She tries to frame the classroom size issue as a teacher safety issue. It’s not. It’s a quality of learning issue, which is not in the conservative vocabulary.

            L 1 Reply Last reply
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            • boydster@sh.itjust.worksB boydster@sh.itjust.works

              That’s not how strikes work, and it cannot be allowed to become the way the ruling class expects to negotiate.

              L This user is from outside of this forum
              L This user is from outside of this forum
              leastaction@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by
              #44

              They simply do not negotiate. They don’t know how to.

              L 1 Reply Last reply
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              • D droopy4096@lemmy.ca

                Federal government has lead the way with complete ghosting and forced back to work legislation, so UCP are happy to be just like the Libs the hate so much.

                L This user is from outside of this forum
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                leastaction@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by
                #45

                I don’t disagree, but one thing is back to work legislation and quite another to kill collective bargainng altogether and impose a contract unilaterally invoking the notwithstanding clause.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • C corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca

                  Just walk off the job.

                  If they don’t want unions, they get people who quit when the contract is over and they get to re-staff every time.

                  People don’t stay at union-wage jobs because they like being paid less. Remove the perqs and learn something new.

                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                  leastaction@lemmy.ca
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #46

                  No, they get people who are willing to work for less and in worse conditions in the jobs the teachers are quitting. It’s exactly what they want.

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                  • L lovecanada@lemmy.ca

                    This is not a black and white issue. On one side the teachers are definitely facing classrooms that are increasingly more complex. There are more kids who have individualized programs, there are more kids who have English as a second language, and there are more with mental health issues. Teachers dont have the resources to deal with EVERY need and still be able to cover all the curriculum they are required to teach. They do need more help, even more than a wage increase.

                    On the other hand, the government also knows that a 12% raise for all teachers over 4 years is not unreasonable, (and some would get up to 17% as the grid would be equalized across the province giving a bump to some lower paid divisions) but they dont want to commit to classroom size caps because of the additional cost of constructing new schools and the extra staff when they already have committed to building 90 new schools and spending nearly 9 billion on those projects. They committed to funding 3000 more teachers but finding them and more Educational Assistants is going to be tough.

                    They also know that there are other unions looking at what the nurses got (20% over 4 years) and what the teachers are asking for and then looking at the budget, which is projected to be over 6 billion dollars DEFICIT and know that if EVERY union asks for that much more the deficit is going to be considerably more next year. That money has to come from somewhere and no one likes higher taxes.

                    Then you gotta add in the political factor that the ATA and the NDP are closely aligned and this isn’t just teachers vs the gov, there is definitely a UCP vs the NDP subplot going on as the NDP looks toward gaining ground for the next election.

                    None of this is cut and dried. And the whole “Danielle stupid/MAGA sucks” rhetoric is ridiculous and naive. Do some research and make an informed comment.

                    L This user is from outside of this forum
                    L This user is from outside of this forum
                    leastaction@lemmy.ca
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #47

                    When the government refuses to negotiate in good faith and instead imposes a contract unilaterally killing collective bargaining with the notwithstanding clause, you bet it’s cut and dried.

                    L 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • L lovecanada@lemmy.ca

                      Well, those “ghouls” (seriously?) not only keep AB afloat, they make enough money so that we dont have to pay sales tax, which is a huge benefit to all Albertans. You only have to travel to other provinces to realize there is a MASSIVE difference to your wallet when you’re only paying 5% GST instead of an additional 7 to 10% PST on top. That literally makes my life better every single day.

                      Secondly, those “ghouls” (eye roll) also provide a LOT of very well paying jobs in AB which is why we are a have province instead of a have not province with the highest per capita incomes (over $96,400) in Canada. I dont work in O and G directly but my son in laws do, and the people who use my services do, so O and G very directly enhances the lives of my family. Solar/wind/other powers are nice but they dont provide great incomes.

                      Thirdly I absolutely reject the whole ‘climate killing’ virtual signalling of those who decry O and G because I know that Canada only emits 1.5% of the worlds GHG’s and the hypocrites who point a finger at O and G would not consider actually taking action against the 98.5% emitters, specifically China and the US. Have you stopped buying goods from China? Have you stopped traveling to the US or buying any goods from the US til they clean up their act? If you have, great, but 99% of Canadians haven’t and they dont actually give a crap, they just like to point fingers at O and G and yell about the ‘climate’.

                      Its far easier to point the finger at the thimble of pollution coming from Canada than it is to actually do something concrete about the shiploads and truckloads of pollution coming from the places where you cause it by buying all their goods. Take the plank out of your own eye and I’ll take your argument seriously.

                      acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                      acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                      acargitz
                      wrote on last edited by theacharnian@lemmy.ca
                      #48

                      Canada emits way more per capita than China. And China is a world leader in electrification and renewables. Again, things that we should be doing instead of glazing oil and gas. Roll your eyes all you want, but Canada’s 1.5% of global emissions, when we are 0.5% of the global population is an atrocious climate crime.

                      Your precious incomes will soon be worth squat by the way, the way the climate crisis is unfolding. How many times does your house have to burn or flood before you realize that? My own insurance premiums have gone up because of shit like this and my municipality here in Montreal has to completely rethink storm drainage with sponge parks everywhere. Who pays for that I wander? Look beyond your nose… Climate crisis resilience is something we all pay for. Plank in my eye, get off your high horse and face the music, buddy. The petro-state lifestyle is almost over.

                      And like I said, against regressive sales taxes. I want to tax capital gains, corporate profits.

                      It’s also ridiculous how you keep touting your life being better because of your wallet. I guess education for the next generation isn’t among the things that matter for a good life over there. I guess I’m too Greek sometimes and too stuck up on ideals of education. Who needs ευ ζειν when your taxes are low. Somebody tell Aristotle’s ghost the barbarians have other ideas.

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                      • acargitzT acargitz

                        Canada emits way more per capita than China. And China is a world leader in electrification and renewables. Again, things that we should be doing instead of glazing oil and gas. Roll your eyes all you want, but Canada’s 1.5% of global emissions, when we are 0.5% of the global population is an atrocious climate crime.

                        Your precious incomes will soon be worth squat by the way, the way the climate crisis is unfolding. How many times does your house have to burn or flood before you realize that? My own insurance premiums have gone up because of shit like this and my municipality here in Montreal has to completely rethink storm drainage with sponge parks everywhere. Who pays for that I wander? Look beyond your nose… Climate crisis resilience is something we all pay for. Plank in my eye, get off your high horse and face the music, buddy. The petro-state lifestyle is almost over.

                        And like I said, against regressive sales taxes. I want to tax capital gains, corporate profits.

                        It’s also ridiculous how you keep touting your life being better because of your wallet. I guess education for the next generation isn’t among the things that matter for a good life over there. I guess I’m too Greek sometimes and too stuck up on ideals of education. Who needs ευ ζειν when your taxes are low. Somebody tell Aristotle’s ghost the barbarians have other ideas.

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                        L This user is from outside of this forum
                        lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                        wrote on last edited by lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                        #49

                        Yes, we barbarians in the west hate education. Thats why I have 7 years of post secondary with two degrees and my daughter is not only a Ph.D but an MD. Her husband is an MD. And my son is a school principal with his Masters. We’re all just dumbies over here in lala petroland.

                        Since WHEN does the climate care about PER CAPITA emissions? Emissions are a GLOBAL problem which means the climate does not look at every person’s output, it only matters what the TOTAL emissions are. And even if we totally shut down the oil patch it wouldn’t make more than 0.5% difference. Thats a margin of error considering this is all based on computer modelling and the data inputs are what makes the most difference.

                        Lovely that China is actually trying to change its horrid practices. They are still 30% of the worlds problem. From ONE country.

                        The petrostate is here for another 50 years til there are better affordable, reliable alternatives. Get used to it. (The first time I heard oil and gas was in decline was in 1970. Yep. Still waiting 55 years later)

                        acargitzT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • L leastaction@lemmy.ca

                          She tries to frame the classroom size issue as a teacher safety issue. It’s not. It’s a quality of learning issue, which is not in the conservative vocabulary.

                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #50

                          They’re definitely linked. My daughter in law has had several incidences where the classroom had to be cleared because a child was freaking out and getting violently out of control and the school’s protocol is to clear the classroom and call in the principal for help. Definitely affects safety AND quality of learning when there are too many kids with high mental health needs in a classroom.

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                          • L leastaction@lemmy.ca

                            They simply do not negotiate. They don’t know how to.

                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            L This user is from outside of this forum
                            lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #51

                            Let’s go with facts: When negotiations started for this contract in 2024, they were offering 8% to teachers and no commitment to more teachers. They moved up to 12% for all teachers and up to 17% for those in divisions with lower grids, plus a commitment to 3000 more teachers. They have also committed to 130 new schools in the province over the next few years which is a 9 billion dollar project. They definitely negotiated.

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                            • C corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca

                              Just walk off the job.

                              If they don’t want unions, they get people who quit when the contract is over and they get to re-staff every time.

                              People don’t stay at union-wage jobs because they like being paid less. Remove the perqs and learn something new.

                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #52

                              Nice idea but a lot of teachers I know are parents with a family and a mortgage to pay for. Nice to say ‘walk off the job’ but when you’ve put in 5 years of university no one wants to start from scratch again.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • L leastaction@lemmy.ca

                                When the government refuses to negotiate in good faith and instead imposes a contract unilaterally killing collective bargaining with the notwithstanding clause, you bet it’s cut and dried.

                                L This user is from outside of this forum
                                L This user is from outside of this forum
                                lovecanada@lemmy.ca
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #53

                                What is ‘good faith’? This negotiation has been going on for a year and a half. The gov has moved from its initial offer of 8% to offering 12% for all teachers and 17% for those who were in lower paid divisions. It has moved from offering no extra teachers to hiring 3000 more teachers. It has also committed to 130 new schools at a cost of 9 billion over the next few years. The ATA didnt get everything it wanted, but its not like the gov hasn’t moved or made a substantial and reasonable offer.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • L lovecanada@lemmy.ca

                                  Yes, we barbarians in the west hate education. Thats why I have 7 years of post secondary with two degrees and my daughter is not only a Ph.D but an MD. Her husband is an MD. And my son is a school principal with his Masters. We’re all just dumbies over here in lala petroland.

                                  Since WHEN does the climate care about PER CAPITA emissions? Emissions are a GLOBAL problem which means the climate does not look at every person’s output, it only matters what the TOTAL emissions are. And even if we totally shut down the oil patch it wouldn’t make more than 0.5% difference. Thats a margin of error considering this is all based on computer modelling and the data inputs are what makes the most difference.

                                  Lovely that China is actually trying to change its horrid practices. They are still 30% of the worlds problem. From ONE country.

                                  The petrostate is here for another 50 years til there are better affordable, reliable alternatives. Get used to it. (The first time I heard oil and gas was in decline was in 1970. Yep. Still waiting 55 years later)

                                  acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  acargitzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  acargitz
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #54

                                  Pay your teachers.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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