The Conservative floor crosser actually reveals a lot about the Liberal budget (and it's not pretty)
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What was the alternative? I would have loved to vote NDP, and usually do in local elections, but they stood no chance. I wasn’t so much voting for Carney as against Poilievre.
Even a minority conservative government with a strong NDP would have been better than a minority neo-liberal (read fiscal conservative) and conservative (read morally conservative) government with no one to stop them.
The liberals are so conservative under Carney that conservatives are jumping to his party ffs.
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“give him a chance, he’s the best option we have”. No. actually. He’s not
What was the better option?
The NDP. Even under Jagmeet we would’ve had a better deal than this shit consevative sandwich that we have right now.
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I mean what choice did we have? we didn’t. It was either a conservative in a liberal furry suit, A wanna-be apple munching trump, or a guy that has never had an original thought pass through his head.
We were fucked. we realized we were fucked. And we decided the fake liberal was the way to go. Canadian politics are so fucked our choices are conservative, ultra conservative, or a weak wannabe democrat party.
There’s a third, even fourth option. A strong NDP in a minority government would’ve gone a long way.
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You know minority governments are a thing though, right? I keep saying it in every comment here. Even a conservative minority with a strong NDP to keep it in check and demand compromises would’ve been better. At least there would’ve been a socialist influence.
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Okay, and Pollievre would be better?
Singh was completely cooked since the 2021 election, running him again and with such poor messaging was entirely the NDP’s fault. It was not fear-mongering.
Singh’s numbers had been publicly decreasing for years, he lost seats in past elections, and the NDP decided to run a ton of single issue candidates run whose whole platform was Palestine.
Meanwhile the party quietly did have a decent pro middle class platform, but didn’t really message that and got too caught up on how tax cuts also affect the rich (up to a very small amount of their income).
I’m sorry but there was only one choice this election. I would have loved a real NDP choice, they chose not to.
The NDP isn’t just Singh. There’s a whole team behind him. And at least his heart’s at the right place.
Again, a minority conservative government with a strong NDP would’ve been better than an entirely conservative government like the one we have right now. (Fiscally conservative + morally conservative)
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Voting for the Conservatives was going to be an even bigger mistake.
No idea why you think the Liberals were the worst of the two options available.
There’s more than two options. This isn’t the U.S.
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The liberals have fearmongered people well!
As someone who promotes fairvote.ca and how broken FPTP is, you’re aware that FPTP promotes a two-party system. In Canada, the only two players on the national level are the liberals and conservatives. And a lot of people voted liberal because they really didn’t want conservative. The liberals didn’t have to do anything to get this result - the system is behaving as designed.
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The NDP. Even under Jagmeet we would’ve had a better deal than this shit consevative sandwich that we have right now.
Better? Yes. An option? Unfortunately no, not this election.
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Even a minority conservative government with a strong NDP would have been better than a minority neo-liberal (read fiscal conservative) and conservative (read morally conservative) government with no one to stop them.
The liberals are so conservative under Carney that conservatives are jumping to his party ffs.
Even a minority conservative government with a strong NDP
Surely you jest… not only your “better” alternative is entirely hypothetical, and impossible for the electorate to target… but giving power to the maple magas would be suicide and never ever conductive to compromise of any kind
Just look south and you can see the playbook the cons here would apply (they have adopted it all). PP would starve the most vulnerable Canadians to force a vote on making it illegal to say the word “trans”
Carney is a heartless bastard and we do need to fight this budget but to pretend flirting with maple maga is a better alternative is laughable
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Still probably much better than the alternative.
Although, as long as the populace allows corporations to financially incentivize politics, corruption is going to be the default mode.
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Carney being a fiscal conservative / pro-free market / pro-private sector business person isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to his career. That the liberals are a centrist party who’s values skew left / right based on the perceived ‘majority’ that exists in the centre, which is the demographic they attempt to target to get elected, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the history of the liberal party. That Canada’s general sentiment is/had shifted towards the right, in part due to the perception of unequal treatment under the guise of initiatives such as DEI and equity programs, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s followed social trends (at least, those who try to get a fairly ‘outside of an echo chamber’ feel for them).
This isn’t to say I support the tax breaks being given to the rich of course. If I had my way, we’d go in a much different direction. All I’m trying to get at is that this isn’t all that surprising to many, and it’s likely still an outcome they viewed as preferable to PP’s conservatives, and to the NDP. Hell, the NDP basically said vote liberal if it helped to stop the Cons.
I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government. In theory that’ll open up more room for the NDP on the left. Where people who are for some reason ‘shocked’ by Carney’s moves, will find solace.
What’s more shocking to me in a way is how far to the left the Liberals had drifted, as a centrist party. That’s what opened up opportunities for the cons to make such large gains, and what caused the NDP to be so thoroughly routed. Seeing cons cross the isle because the Liberals are once again more ‘centrist’ in their values, isn’t a bad thing.
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What was the alternative? I would have loved to vote NDP, and usually do in local elections, but they stood no chance. I wasn’t so much voting for Carney as against Poilievre.
I think that is the point. The establishment can force a person in when the other is straight up evil.
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Carney being a fiscal conservative / pro-free market / pro-private sector business person isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to his career. That the liberals are a centrist party who’s values skew left / right based on the perceived ‘majority’ that exists in the centre, which is the demographic they attempt to target to get elected, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the history of the liberal party. That Canada’s general sentiment is/had shifted towards the right, in part due to the perception of unequal treatment under the guise of initiatives such as DEI and equity programs, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s followed social trends (at least, those who try to get a fairly ‘outside of an echo chamber’ feel for them).
This isn’t to say I support the tax breaks being given to the rich of course. If I had my way, we’d go in a much different direction. All I’m trying to get at is that this isn’t all that surprising to many, and it’s likely still an outcome they viewed as preferable to PP’s conservatives, and to the NDP. Hell, the NDP basically said vote liberal if it helped to stop the Cons.
I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government. In theory that’ll open up more room for the NDP on the left. Where people who are for some reason ‘shocked’ by Carney’s moves, will find solace.
What’s more shocking to me in a way is how far to the left the Liberals had drifted, as a centrist party. That’s what opened up opportunities for the cons to make such large gains, and what caused the NDP to be so thoroughly routed. Seeing cons cross the isle because the Liberals are once again more ‘centrist’ in their values, isn’t a bad thing.
How much farther right does the centrist party needs to go before the far-right option drops of the table and the “leftist” option becomes viable as the new center? The southern neighbour has shown us: too much
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How much farther right does the centrist party needs to go before the far-right option drops of the table and the “leftist” option becomes viable as the new center? The southern neighbour has shown us: too much
Gotta admit, I’m not too clear on what you’re positing here. Yes, there’s the possibility that the liberals could go too far to the right – similar to how they’d gone too far to the left recently – and as a result essentially eliminate support for far right parties. I personally don’t think it’s too likely that either ‘extreme’ would get fully squashed, as there will always be a small segment that thinks things haven’t gone far enough.
Our southern neighbour is just, in absolute chaos at the moment. I don’t really see how anything from their current situation or their historic style of government translates to Canada’s electoral stuff in this case. In addition to having multiple parties, the structure of the legislature is also quite different. Realistically, having more parties that represent better wedges of the Canadian landscape is a net win for how well the government’s actions likely align to the people’s will.
I mean, the cons going in for that hard-right bullshit, was basically a political choice based on them figuring they wouldn’t lose the fiscally conservative/socially progressive support from the party. PP embraced US/Trump style bullshit, because he was confident his supporters who hated that, had no where to go.
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Carney being a fiscal conservative / pro-free market / pro-private sector business person isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to his career. That the liberals are a centrist party who’s values skew left / right based on the perceived ‘majority’ that exists in the centre, which is the demographic they attempt to target to get elected, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s paid attention to the history of the liberal party. That Canada’s general sentiment is/had shifted towards the right, in part due to the perception of unequal treatment under the guise of initiatives such as DEI and equity programs, isn’t a surprise to anyone who’s followed social trends (at least, those who try to get a fairly ‘outside of an echo chamber’ feel for them).
This isn’t to say I support the tax breaks being given to the rich of course. If I had my way, we’d go in a much different direction. All I’m trying to get at is that this isn’t all that surprising to many, and it’s likely still an outcome they viewed as preferable to PP’s conservatives, and to the NDP. Hell, the NDP basically said vote liberal if it helped to stop the Cons.
I’m sure part of the hope is that the liberals will shift right far enough, that the cons won’t have a viable path to full control of the government. In theory that’ll open up more room for the NDP on the left. Where people who are for some reason ‘shocked’ by Carney’s moves, will find solace.
What’s more shocking to me in a way is how far to the left the Liberals had drifted, as a centrist party. That’s what opened up opportunities for the cons to make such large gains, and what caused the NDP to be so thoroughly routed. Seeing cons cross the isle because the Liberals are once again more ‘centrist’ in their values, isn’t a bad thing.
It’s definitely something I expected to happen and still prefer over PP and the conservatives being in charge, but even though I didn’t vote NDP doesn’t mean I prefer this outcome over NDP being in power.
I voted liberal because my riding is largely conservative and it would be lucky to turn red and a miracle to go orange
If we had a different electoral system I would have gone 1 NDP 2 Green 3 Liberal and 4 Conservative in ranked choice.
Unfortunately we are currently stuck with first past the post leading to my riding voting blue with a narrow lead over red and hardly any voters for orange and green.
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You know minority governments are a thing though, right? I keep saying it in every comment here. Even a conservative minority with a strong NDP to keep it in check and demand compromises would’ve been better. At least there would’ve been a socialist influence.
Obviously I know that. Carney’s current government is a minority government.
You really think the NDP would be a meaningful partner in any sense to a Conservative government? They’d work with the Liberals instead, they’re more closely aligned with Conservative goals and values.
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There’s a third, even fourth option. A strong NDP in a minority government would’ve gone a long way.
In a minority Liberal government, perhaps. I don’t see a Conservative minority government being particularly interested in working with the NDP.
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We’re not a two-party system, champ.
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As opposed up what we have right now?
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Even a minority conservative government with a strong NDP
Surely you jest… not only your “better” alternative is entirely hypothetical, and impossible for the electorate to target… but giving power to the maple magas would be suicide and never ever conductive to compromise of any kind
Just look south and you can see the playbook the cons here would apply (they have adopted it all). PP would starve the most vulnerable Canadians to force a vote on making it illegal to say the word “trans”
Carney is a heartless bastard and we do need to fight this budget but to pretend flirting with maple maga is a better alternative is laughable
I think we’re misunderstanding each other here.
