Apparently Canadians are notorius cheaters in the sport of Curling
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…if said billiard ball weighed 40 lbs.
A little finger poke ain’t gonna do shit.
But, the rules are the rules.
A little finger poke ain’t gonna do shit.
a slight drag will prevent over -rotation of the stone.
Regardless, it’s a fucking rule.
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A little finger poke ain’t gonna do shit.
a slight drag will prevent over -rotation of the stone.
Regardless, it’s a fucking rule.
I have said several time that I have no problem with the rule being enforced.
a slight drag will prevent over -rotation of the stone.
I really don’t think so, especially the light touch that I’ve seen on video (which, to be fair, was Homan’s throw on the women’s side). Again, these things are damn heavy, and you’re not going to push them around with a finger without making a visible effort.
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Having curled myself, I can assure you it does not…and if it did make a difference, it would almost certainly be negative, since you’re giving up any semblance of control that you had on the actual throw. There’s not going to be some “precision poke” that magically steers it where it needs to go. But don’t take my word for it.
Does it make any difference?
“No. The double-touching that I’ve seen has been incidental contact, and that’s fingers brushing or hand brushing on a 40-pound piece of granite,” said Eugene Hritzuk, a Canadian curler based in Saskatoon who has been involved in competitive curling and coaching for more than 60 years.
“What can fingers brushing against a 40-pound piece of granite do in any event? You need the palm on your hand against that stone to do anything.”
Delivering a stone entails acute skills to slide on line and on pace, he said.
Once sliding on target and at the right speed, releasing the stone and then touching it with any force would cause it to veer off its intended line and speed, Hritzuk said. “That would not be advantageous to good execution.”
Canadian curling commentator John Cullen, who hosted the CBC podcast Broomgate: A Curling Scandal, said most top curlers will say that double-touching has no effect on the stone.
As well, most top curlers will double-touch at times and don’t think it’s a foul, he said.
“The idea that a top curler would let a rock go and then want to try to adjust it with their finger —it doesn’t seem like there’s any way you could get an advantage from that. It feels like it would be worse.”
But as I said, the rules are the rules, and I don’t think it’s wrong to enforce them.
Having curled myself,
dude…people do this when they over-rotate the stone after letting go of the handle. It’s not about steering or momentum forward. a slight drag will reduce the rotation.
There is no reason to be pointing a finger on release.
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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7671573
Sweden knew Canada’s Marc Kennedy was a notorious cheater.
So they set up a camera at the ‘hog line’ to record it.
And caught him doing it at the Olympics.
Not really a good look for us. Would rather our athletes not cheat on an international stage representing our country. Play by the rules or not at all. Thank you very much.
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Having curled myself,
dude…people do this when they over-rotate the stone after letting go of the handle. It’s not about steering or momentum forward. a slight drag will reduce the rotation.
There is no reason to be pointing a finger on release.
I would love to see someone go to a curling rink and demonstrate this this is remotely possible.
There is no reason to be pointing a finger on release.
I completely agree. There is absolutely no reason to do it, because there is no chance it will do anything.
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It’s strange then how this is a common strategy among cheaters in curling, and that it is exactly what the Canadian team is known for, and it is illegal to do for precisely that reason.
I’ve been watching the curling through these Olympics, and after this was done there were reports that other nations teams also have claimed to have done this before, and that they don’t think it requires extreme policing like the Swedish team suggested. The latter half of their argument led me to believe it happens a lot more than we knew before this incident and they’d rather this not become a constant issue. Sounds like the Swedish team has been trying to accuse the Canadian team of this for a few years now, and have gotten a reputation internationally about it as sore losers.
So it’s only “what the Canadian team is known for” because of the swearing response, and the fact it was broadcast everywhere after Swedish media blew up about it, and why they only had umpires watching as of the next day. It seems like the rest of the world doesn’t care about this, and is more upset about the aggressive response (which I think everyone can agree with)
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Of fuck that’s a war crime.
Even worse not just to America but specifically New Jersey, undeniably the worst part of America
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Send them on an all expenses paid trip to America as punishment!
Woah dude, chill
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Even worse not just to America but specifically New Jersey, undeniably the worst part of America
Even in the turn of the 31st century is it still not livable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsqHEmMao8w
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Yes I am a violent drug addicted criminal, I don’t know maybe you’re a nice kid in school and wear shirts and stuff but around my hood we don’t.
…but around my hood we don’t.
Lol, this is so stupid. Why?
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Look, I find extending a finger to give the stone a boop after release completely baffling…but there’s no chance at all that it affected the trajectory of the thing. You might as well “cheat” by blowing on it.
I think he thought the boop was going to do something. It was entirely deliberate. The guy clearly cheated.
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Having curled myself, I can assure you it does not…and if it did make a difference, it would almost certainly be negative, since you’re giving up any semblance of control that you had on the actual throw. There’s not going to be some “precision poke” that magically steers it where it needs to go. But don’t take my word for it.
Does it make any difference?
“No. The double-touching that I’ve seen has been incidental contact, and that’s fingers brushing or hand brushing on a 40-pound piece of granite,” said Eugene Hritzuk, a Canadian curler based in Saskatoon who has been involved in competitive curling and coaching for more than 60 years.
“What can fingers brushing against a 40-pound piece of granite do in any event? You need the palm on your hand against that stone to do anything.”
Delivering a stone entails acute skills to slide on line and on pace, he said.
Once sliding on target and at the right speed, releasing the stone and then touching it with any force would cause it to veer off its intended line and speed, Hritzuk said. “That would not be advantageous to good execution.”
Canadian curling commentator John Cullen, who hosted the CBC podcast Broomgate: A Curling Scandal, said most top curlers will say that double-touching has no effect on the stone.
As well, most top curlers will double-touch at times and don’t think it’s a foul, he said.
“The idea that a top curler would let a rock go and then want to try to adjust it with their finger —it doesn’t seem like there’s any way you could get an advantage from that. It feels like it would be worse.”
But as I said, the rules are the rules, and I don’t think it’s wrong to enforce them.
What can fingers brushing against a 40-pound piece of granite do in any event?
This is a fun little physics problem.
The CoF of a curling stone on ice appears to be between .006 and .016 depending on fast its sliding.
So with a CoF of .006 that 40lb chunk of granite has an effective weight of just four ounces relative to that same chunk of granite at a CoF of 1. With a CoF of .016 it’s relative weight is 9 ounces.
So if the finger brush is in either the X or Y axis then basically anything more than what it takes to press a key on your keyboard will have an effect.
Trying to stop the stone from rotating is a whole different matter because then you’re working against it’s stored inertia and that will be much much higher. No way to calculate that though unless you know it’s rate of spin.
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Because extreme cases can impact the rock. Barely touching the rock in the way caught on film realistically isn’t impacting the rock, but the rule needs to exist to prevent someone from actively pushing the rock after letting go.
But again, these guys know better and have had the time and resources to train better.
ok, but we are talking about a sport that is using brooms to micro melt the ice, and on a molecular level changing how the rotation changes the direction of this rock… someone touching the rock seems much more impactful
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…if said billiard ball weighed 40 lbs.
A little finger poke ain’t gonna do shit.
But, the rules are the rules.
the primary method of playing the game involves melting a microscopic layer of ice to alter the trajectory of the 40lbs rock….
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Look, I find extending a finger to give the stone a boop after release completely baffling…but there’s no chance at all that it affected the trajectory of the thing. You might as well “cheat” by blowing on it.
Accident? He’s done it multiple times. The women’s team did it too.
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And then there is this angle that shows he holds his finger beside the rock after release.
The “gotcha” photo has his finger buried internally in the rock, seeing this other angle shows his finger beside the rock, but from a different angle would appear to be touching it.
Not as clear cut as they want you to believe.
There’s a middle ground between “completely innocent” and “massive cheats”. I think it’s possible that the Canadians have all trained in a technique where they release the rock and then point, and the Swedes use a different release technique. When the Canadians do it, it could lead to them sometimes accidentally brushing the rock with their fingers. If it happens it might mean that they broke the rules and that that rock should be removed (or whatever it is they do), but it doesn’t mean that they’re intentionally cheating.
It really looks like they’re poking the rock with their fingers, why else would they point like that? But, I’ve seen enough people talking about the biomechanics of sports that I know that sometimes something that seems dumb like pointing might just be how they ensure that their bodies are aligned exactly the same way every time. It’s like how the Olympic pistol shooters have this weird posture with their hands in their pockets.
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Accident? He’s done it multiple times. The women’s team did it too.
Yeah, as the article I linked indicated, a lot of players simply don’t consider it an infraction, and therefore don’t give a damn whether they do it.
And for probably the fifth time, I have no problem with the rule being enforced.
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During the whole thing I was just picturing these curling nerds saying that shit to my face and how that’d go down lol.
and how that’d go down lol.
What, getting your ass beat half to death by Olympian athletes?
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The brooms affect the ice in front of the rock, which changes the rock’s behaviour as it moves over the swept patch. You have to exert quite a bit of force to push the rock directly.
And if it had no effect why do they do it?
Sometimes by accident, I’m sure. And probably more relevant, sometimes out of sheer laziness.
Alright. If you are gonna argue that was an accident then you just aren’t someone worth discussing things with. My god…
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ok, but we are talking about a sport that is using brooms to micro melt the ice, and on a molecular level changing how the rotation changes the direction of this rock… someone touching the rock seems much more impactful
Fair enough. I realize now that I spoke with more confidence on the reality of the situation than I intended. Any avid curler I’ve spoken with regarding this in the last couple days swears up and down that the level of interaction that supposidly occurred between the curler and the rock is genuinely a non-factor. I do not know from any level of personal experience, hence why I stated that I trust whatever Olympic panel exists. I merely wanted to counter the poor argument that “the rule wouldn’t exist if it can’t impact the rock,” as the rule can absolutely exist for the purpose of more clear cut cases.
Armchair analysis is rarely worth taking seriously. I suspect that neither of us actually know from experience, but maybe you’re a professional curler.
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