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  3. Trump bullied Canada over ‘digital taxes’ – and Ottawa submitted

Trump bullied Canada over ‘digital taxes’ – and Ottawa submitted

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Canada
canada
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  • R reannlegge@lemmy.ca

    You cannot believe how sick it is to open Lemmy and the first thing you see is a picture of Zuckerberg.

    I hope Carney reintroduces it after these trade talks fail.

    O This user is from outside of this forum
    O This user is from outside of this forum
    orteilgenou@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    Carney isn’t going to do any favors. He’s leaning toward austerity measures to pay for the 5% budget pledge for NATO that he was strong armed into accepting and now has acquiesced to the demands of the Broligarchy.

    He’s not a leader, he’s a banker

    W 1 Reply Last reply
    22
    • O orteilgenou@lemmy.world

      Carney isn’t going to do any favors. He’s leaning toward austerity measures to pay for the 5% budget pledge for NATO that he was strong armed into accepting and now has acquiesced to the demands of the Broligarchy.

      He’s not a leader, he’s a banker

      W This user is from outside of this forum
      W This user is from outside of this forum
      wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
      wrote on last edited by wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
      #14

      Don’t forget, he’s not just a banker, he was also the vice chair and chair of Brookfield, one of the world’s largest residential real estate landlord, the largest residential landlord in San Francisco, accused of repeatedly violating indigenous rights in multiple countries.

      But hey, I’m absolutely convinced he can fix the housing crisis in Canada!

      He can… As in he knows very well how to, since he was one of the main culprit for years. I will eat my hat if he does though. But hey when I pointed that out during the election I was a Tankie and Trump supporter or something.

      Z 1 Reply Last reply
      15
      • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

        The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

        Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

        K This user is from outside of this forum
        K This user is from outside of this forum
        karlhungus@lemmy.ca
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        What did we get, cause it sure does seem like nothing.

        B Z 2 Replies Last reply
        6
        • K karlhungus@lemmy.ca

          What did we get, cause it sure does seem like nothing.

          B This user is from outside of this forum
          B This user is from outside of this forum
          buddascrayon@lemmy.world
          wrote on last edited by buddascrayon@lemmy.world
          #16

          I think the point is that by capitulating on this, Canada has gained time. Time to make deals with other countries as trade partners, time to source necessities (that they have gotten from the U.S. for literally decades) from other countries, and time to build up their own military might in case Trump makes good on his idiotic “51st state” bullshit.

          K B 2 Replies Last reply
          5
          • K karlhungus@lemmy.ca

            What did we get, cause it sure does seem like nothing.

            Z This user is from outside of this forum
            Z This user is from outside of this forum
            zamboni_driver@lemmy.ca
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            We’re in the middle of discussions right now. We don’t find out what we gained or lost for a few more weeks.

            1 Reply Last reply
            3
            • O outlierblue@lemmy.ca

              The last thing you do when a toddler throws a tantrum is give in to their demands. You reinforce their behaviour and teach them it works. Every child phsychologist can tell you that.

              So why the fuck are world leaders, with the resources of an entire country, enabling this whiny man-child?!

              W This user is from outside of this forum
              W This user is from outside of this forum
              walktheplank@lemmy.world
              wrote on last edited by walktheplank@lemmy.world
              #18

              Because they are also whiny man babies. Just a bit quieter about it.

              1 Reply Last reply
              3
              • streetfestival@lemmy.caS streetfestival@lemmy.ca

                I agree with the Nobel Laureate in economics, Joseph E Stiglitz, who wrote this.

                Of course, when the most profitable companies in the world don’t pay their fair share of taxes, it just shifts the burden on to others.

                Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                Nik282000N This user is from outside of this forum
                Nik282000N This user is from outside of this forum
                Nik282000
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                streetfestival@lemmy.caS H L J 4 Replies Last reply
                26
                • O outlierblue@lemmy.ca

                  The last thing you do when a toddler throws a tantrum is give in to their demands. You reinforce their behaviour and teach them it works. Every child phsychologist can tell you that.

                  So why the fuck are world leaders, with the resources of an entire country, enabling this whiny man-child?!

                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  disaster@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  The collective delusion of social power is being tested. I don’t see the current configuration passing.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • Nik282000N Nik282000

                    Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                    And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                    You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                    streetfestival@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                    streetfestival@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                    streetfestival@lemmy.ca
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    Incredibly well said about corporate harms, thank you!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    4
                    • W wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works

                      Don’t forget, he’s not just a banker, he was also the vice chair and chair of Brookfield, one of the world’s largest residential real estate landlord, the largest residential landlord in San Francisco, accused of repeatedly violating indigenous rights in multiple countries.

                      But hey, I’m absolutely convinced he can fix the housing crisis in Canada!

                      He can… As in he knows very well how to, since he was one of the main culprit for years. I will eat my hat if he does though. But hey when I pointed that out during the election I was a Tankie and Trump supporter or something.

                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      zacpod@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #22

                      To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

                      I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

                      So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

                      W R 2 Replies Last reply
                      15
                      • Z zacpod@lemmy.world

                        To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

                        I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

                        So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
                        wrote on last edited by wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
                        #23

                        But he’s better in some way than PP.

                        FIFY, because clearly not in every way. In many ways, as evidenced here, he sucks just as much.

                        The issue is that now we’re stuck in the same cycle again of someone who’s going to make thing measurably worse for the average person, while driving the overtone window further right, and thus further drive the rise of the far right. Voting for the lesser evil is how we got to here. The system works as expected.

                        Z 1 Reply Last reply
                        4
                        • Nik282000N Nik282000

                          Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                          And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                          You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                          H This user is from outside of this forum
                          H This user is from outside of this forum
                          hasherm0n@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          At that point it’s not theft, it’s reappropreation.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          2
                          • B buddascrayon@lemmy.world

                            I think the point is that by capitulating on this, Canada has gained time. Time to make deals with other countries as trade partners, time to source necessities (that they have gotten from the U.S. for literally decades) from other countries, and time to build up their own military might in case Trump makes good on his idiotic “51st state” bullshit.

                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            karlhungus@lemmy.ca
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            I guess we’ll find out in time, but that’s sort of my point. Trump’s well known to fold (TACO), maybe he would have shown up to the table anyway, or written us a letter!

                            B 1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

                              The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

                              Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #26

                              Canadian companies, schools and government have deals with microsoft

                              K G 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • Z zacpod@lemmy.world

                                To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

                                I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

                                So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #27

                                Qe don’t have a two party system, the right choice was npd

                                Z 1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • Nik282000N Nik282000

                                  Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                                  And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                                  You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                                  lauha@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #28

                                  And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime.

                                  Well, it literally is a crime because law is law and law is not ethics, but you could argue that it is morally okay due to the reasons you provided.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  3
                                  • Nik282000N Nik282000

                                    Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                                    And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                                    You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jarix@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #29

                                    it is a basic human right to steal from those who haven’t paid their fair share?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    3
                                    • W wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works

                                      But he’s better in some way than PP.

                                      FIFY, because clearly not in every way. In many ways, as evidenced here, he sucks just as much.

                                      The issue is that now we’re stuck in the same cycle again of someone who’s going to make thing measurably worse for the average person, while driving the overtone window further right, and thus further drive the rise of the far right. Voting for the lesser evil is how we got to here. The system works as expected.

                                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                      zacpod@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #30

                                      Ya. I don’t disagree. The system has been broken by foreign owned media, social media, and late stage capitalism.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                                        Qe don’t have a two party system, the right choice was npd

                                        Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                        zacpod@lemmy.world
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #31

                                        I agree. NPD was the right choice. It’s just not the choice enough Canadians were going to make. Which sucks. Hard.

                                        R 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

                                          The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

                                          Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

                                          W This user is from outside of this forum
                                          W This user is from outside of this forum
                                          wampus@lemmy.ca
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #32

                                          You’ll never see Canada block big tech at this point I’m afraid. All the talk of sovereignty is just that, talk. None of our different government agencies is prepared to abandon Microsoft. All of our financial regulators are completely in bed with Microsoft. Most of our banks are in bed with Microsoft. Our ATMs run on Windows due to Payments Canada being in bed with Microsoft and mandating it. All of your banking data is accessible by Microsoft. Every government agency runs on Microsoft.

                                          Every time there’s an announcement about ditching US providers, ask your MP/MLA if that includes Microsoft / big tech. There’s always an “out” in those announcements to allow them to dodge that one – like “It’s too expensive to change”, or “too difficult to change quickly” or whatever.

                                          I mean, look at all these “nation-building” projects that they’re itching to suppress Canadian’s rights to “get moving” – they’re all projects that’re gonna be lead by Big US companies to extract resources from Canada. They put on a good show, but the reality is that Trump / America was right that Canada is basically a little bitch at this point. Our politicians have proven that time and again this year.

                                          G 1 Reply Last reply
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