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  3. Trump bullied Canada over ‘digital taxes’ – and Ottawa submitted

Trump bullied Canada over ‘digital taxes’ – and Ottawa submitted

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Canada
canada
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  • W wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works

    Don’t forget, he’s not just a banker, he was also the vice chair and chair of Brookfield, one of the world’s largest residential real estate landlord, the largest residential landlord in San Francisco, accused of repeatedly violating indigenous rights in multiple countries.

    But hey, I’m absolutely convinced he can fix the housing crisis in Canada!

    He can… As in he knows very well how to, since he was one of the main culprit for years. I will eat my hat if he does though. But hey when I pointed that out during the election I was a Tankie and Trump supporter or something.

    Z This user is from outside of this forum
    Z This user is from outside of this forum
    zacpod@lemmy.world
    wrote on last edited by
    #22

    To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

    I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

    So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

    W R 2 Replies Last reply
    15
    • Z zacpod@lemmy.world

      To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

      I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

      So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

      W This user is from outside of this forum
      W This user is from outside of this forum
      wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
      wrote on last edited by wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
      #23

      But he’s better in some way than PP.

      FIFY, because clearly not in every way. In many ways, as evidenced here, he sucks just as much.

      The issue is that now we’re stuck in the same cycle again of someone who’s going to make thing measurably worse for the average person, while driving the overtone window further right, and thus further drive the rise of the far right. Voting for the lesser evil is how we got to here. The system works as expected.

      Z 1 Reply Last reply
      4
      • Nik282000N Nik282000

        Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

        And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

        You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

        H This user is from outside of this forum
        H This user is from outside of this forum
        hasherm0n@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #24

        At that point it’s not theft, it’s reappropreation.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • B buddascrayon@lemmy.world

          I think the point is that by capitulating on this, Canada has gained time. Time to make deals with other countries as trade partners, time to source necessities (that they have gotten from the U.S. for literally decades) from other countries, and time to build up their own military might in case Trump makes good on his idiotic “51st state” bullshit.

          K This user is from outside of this forum
          K This user is from outside of this forum
          karlhungus@lemmy.ca
          wrote on last edited by
          #25

          I guess we’ll find out in time, but that’s sort of my point. Trump’s well known to fold (TACO), maybe he would have shown up to the table anyway, or written us a letter!

          B 1 Reply Last reply
          2
          • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

            The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

            Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

            R This user is from outside of this forum
            R This user is from outside of this forum
            rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
            wrote on last edited by
            #26

            Canadian companies, schools and government have deals with microsoft

            K G 2 Replies Last reply
            0
            • Z zacpod@lemmy.world

              To be fair, we had to vote for the banker cuz the only realistic alternative was a nazi-handshaking maple maga moron. We picked the best of the shitty options.

              I would have LOVED to see Jagmeet in the big chair, but too much of Canada is too racist to vote for someone in a turban, and the rest were going to vote for PP.

              So ya. Cheney is a fucking banker. But he’s better in every way than PP.

              R This user is from outside of this forum
              R This user is from outside of this forum
              rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
              wrote on last edited by
              #27

              Qe don’t have a two party system, the right choice was npd

              Z 1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • Nik282000N Nik282000

                Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                L This user is from outside of this forum
                L This user is from outside of this forum
                lauha@lemmy.world
                wrote on last edited by
                #28

                And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime.

                Well, it literally is a crime because law is law and law is not ethics, but you could argue that it is morally okay due to the reasons you provided.

                1 Reply Last reply
                3
                • Nik282000N Nik282000

                  Apple was so successful in avoiding taxes in Europe that it is estimated that it paid in some years a tax of just 0.005% on its European profits.

                  And that is why stealing from a corporation is not a crime. They have deprived you, personally, of benefits and services that your government can not afford because of tax dodging. They are killing you, personally, by privatizing your health care, by opposing electrification, by using single use plastics for nearly all packaging. They are keeping you, personally, poor by suppressing wages, raising prices, and outsourcing labour to markets where slavery is not only tolerated but the norm.

                  You can not injure a corporation, you can not hurt it’s feelings. Pirate, lie, steal, cheat, get every penny you can from the 1% and use it to help the other 99.

                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                  jarix@lemmy.world
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #29

                  it is a basic human right to steal from those who haven’t paid their fair share?

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  3
                  • W wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works

                    But he’s better in some way than PP.

                    FIFY, because clearly not in every way. In many ways, as evidenced here, he sucks just as much.

                    The issue is that now we’re stuck in the same cycle again of someone who’s going to make thing measurably worse for the average person, while driving the overtone window further right, and thus further drive the rise of the far right. Voting for the lesser evil is how we got to here. The system works as expected.

                    Z This user is from outside of this forum
                    Z This user is from outside of this forum
                    zacpod@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #30

                    Ya. I don’t disagree. The system has been broken by foreign owned media, social media, and late stage capitalism.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                      Qe don’t have a two party system, the right choice was npd

                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                      zacpod@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #31

                      I agree. NPD was the right choice. It’s just not the choice enough Canadians were going to make. Which sucks. Hard.

                      R 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

                        The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

                        Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        W This user is from outside of this forum
                        wampus@lemmy.ca
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #32

                        You’ll never see Canada block big tech at this point I’m afraid. All the talk of sovereignty is just that, talk. None of our different government agencies is prepared to abandon Microsoft. All of our financial regulators are completely in bed with Microsoft. Most of our banks are in bed with Microsoft. Our ATMs run on Windows due to Payments Canada being in bed with Microsoft and mandating it. All of your banking data is accessible by Microsoft. Every government agency runs on Microsoft.

                        Every time there’s an announcement about ditching US providers, ask your MP/MLA if that includes Microsoft / big tech. There’s always an “out” in those announcements to allow them to dodge that one – like “It’s too expensive to change”, or “too difficult to change quickly” or whatever.

                        I mean, look at all these “nation-building” projects that they’re itching to suppress Canadian’s rights to “get moving” – they’re all projects that’re gonna be lead by Big US companies to extract resources from Canada. They put on a good show, but the reality is that Trump / America was right that Canada is basically a little bitch at this point. Our politicians have proven that time and again this year.

                        G 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • K karlhungus@lemmy.ca

                          I guess we’ll find out in time, but that’s sort of my point. Trump’s well known to fold (TACO), maybe he would have shown up to the table anyway, or written us a letter!

                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          buddascrayon@lemmy.world
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #33

                          Here’s the thing. They have markets too. And his Taco behavior is rocketing every market across the globe every time he does this. And some speculate that he is making a load of money by doing this. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t, I don’t know. I don’t think he’s smart enough to actually take advantage of this. Though I know there are people out there who are and are making a ton of off of this. But all these countries crave stability, and the only way they’re going to get it is if Trump stops with all of his idiotic tariff talk. And before you say anything, no he will not learn his lesson. It has been over 6 months since he took office and he, despite everyone ignoring him constantly, has continued his unyielding parade of stupid.

                          K 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Z zacpod@lemmy.world

                            I agree. NPD was the right choice. It’s just not the choice enough Canadians were going to make. Which sucks. Hard.

                            R This user is from outside of this forum
                            R This user is from outside of this forum
                            rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #34

                            When the majority keep saying npd is never going to win so i will not voting for them of course they will never win. Of you kwep voting for the same two parties thst failed multiple time, the country will keep getting worse

                            Z 1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • B buddascrayon@lemmy.world

                              Here’s the thing. They have markets too. And his Taco behavior is rocketing every market across the globe every time he does this. And some speculate that he is making a load of money by doing this. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t, I don’t know. I don’t think he’s smart enough to actually take advantage of this. Though I know there are people out there who are and are making a ton of off of this. But all these countries crave stability, and the only way they’re going to get it is if Trump stops with all of his idiotic tariff talk. And before you say anything, no he will not learn his lesson. It has been over 6 months since he took office and he, despite everyone ignoring him constantly, has continued his unyielding parade of stupid.

                              K This user is from outside of this forum
                              K This user is from outside of this forum
                              karlhungus@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #35

                              Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t

                              WHAT. He sold beans for money in his first term, of course he’s making money off of it.

                              I don’t think he’s smart enough to actually take advantage of this.

                              This is one of his major MO’s making money, maybe he missed the first few times, but he’s done it so much now that he’s for sure making money on these bets, just like every supporter he’s got out there.

                              Why do you think he walked away from the table because of the DST, because he cares about gig tech? They paid him – that’s why they got seats at his inauguration.

                              And before you say anything, no he will not learn his lesson.

                              Disagree, this is a lesson reinforces itself, I bet he continues this way. I’m not saying he’s smart, just greedy.

                              B 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • D davriellelouna@lemmy.world

                                This is an excellent piece from Joseph Stiglitz.

                                Everyone should read it.

                                Link Preview Image
                                Trump is bullying Canada over ‘digital taxes’ and Canada caved | Joseph Stiglitz

                                The question now: will countries cave in to these threats or stick together and collect the billions they are rightly owed?

                                favicon

                                the Guardian (www.theguardian.com)

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                                melsaskca@lemmy.ca
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #36

                                Ask 10 economists, you’ll get 10 different answers. But opinions are news now because we need to keep that train rolling in the new 24/7 news economy. My own opinion is that he “capitulated” to get the trade talks started again se he can get past that July 21st deadline and then proceed accordingly.

                                T C 2 Replies Last reply
                                12
                                • M melsaskca@lemmy.ca

                                  Ask 10 economists, you’ll get 10 different answers. But opinions are news now because we need to keep that train rolling in the new 24/7 news economy. My own opinion is that he “capitulated” to get the trade talks started again se he can get past that July 21st deadline and then proceed accordingly.

                                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                                  typotyper@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #37

                                  I also think it gives him a small bit of leverage too. They can always be reinstated the taxes since it was a 2020(?) bill with a deferred effective date

                                  S 1 Reply Last reply
                                  6
                                  • B buddascrayon@lemmy.world

                                    I think the point is that by capitulating on this, Canada has gained time. Time to make deals with other countries as trade partners, time to source necessities (that they have gotten from the U.S. for literally decades) from other countries, and time to build up their own military might in case Trump makes good on his idiotic “51st state” bullshit.

                                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                                    bowreality@lemmy.ca
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #38

                                    That’s what I am hoping this is. All just a big game for more time to pivot away from the USA. What we need is time time time.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • O outlierblue@lemmy.ca

                                      The last thing you do when a toddler throws a tantrum is give in to their demands. You reinforce their behaviour and teach them it works. Every child phsychologist can tell you that.

                                      So why the fuck are world leaders, with the resources of an entire country, enabling this whiny man-child?!

                                      K This user is from outside of this forum
                                      K This user is from outside of this forum
                                      kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                      wrote on last edited by kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                      #39

                                      The last thing you do when a toddler throws a tantrum is give in to their demands.

                                      But when it’s a toddler with a (nuclear) gun, you do have to tread very carefully and choose your battles wisely.

                                      I can’t say yet if Carney has currently made all of the most wise choices. I don’t think anyone has enough information (including him) yet to make that call. Time will tell.

                                      I certainly don’t envy him this task.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • G godoflies@lemmy.ca

                                        The media can keep bashing the Canadian government scrapping the tax. The last minute “capitulation” as many in the media is framing it as, while true, is also disingenuous on how Canada has to deal with the US given the cards it has in hand. Canada right now still relies heavily on exporting things to the US and keeping the US at the table talking is the best it can do right now until it can secure other trade deals around the world. Proximity matters and even more so when they are still is a superpower.

                                        Canada still has many options despite this digital tax. What about banning US big tech? What about changing the rules about tech companies entering Canadian job space (and it doesn’t have to be a tax)? Other countries have managed (eg. China, Denmark), so why can’t Canada? The government can fight on one front, but Canadians themselves also have to. The boycott of travel to the US and of US goods clearly has made impact, but Canadians can do more. Support open source software like Linux, move away from Adobe and so forth. There are alternatives and some even Canadian ones. If we are to truly give the Canadian government good tools to fight, we too must do our jobs individually.

                                        K This user is from outside of this forum
                                        K This user is from outside of this forum
                                        kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #40

                                        What about reveting media ownership limits back to what they were previously?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • R rumimevlevi@lemmings.world

                                          Canadian companies, schools and government have deals with microsoft

                                          K This user is from outside of this forum
                                          K This user is from outside of this forum
                                          kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                          wrote on last edited by kent_eh@lemmy.ca
                                          #41

                                          Increasingly European governments are moving away from Microsoft to open source software.

                                          That is an example (and a proven path) that Canada can follow.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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