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  3. Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

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  • L leave_it_blank@lemmy.world

    The problem is the launcher. He does not want one.

    P This user is from outside of this forum
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    prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    #137

    This is directly from the comment I replied to:

    I would buy from GOG too, if they provided Linux support in form of an official launcher

    No need for an official launcher when you can just use Steam as a launcher.

    W 1 Reply Last reply
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    • N nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com

      it’s crazy how you offer people convenience and they willingly pay for it. I remember steam killing piracy before DRM or anything like that existing

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      wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org
      wrote last edited by
      #138

      You make it sound like drm didn’t exist before steam or like steam isn’t a form of drm itself. Old drm was more basic and far less nefarious, like entering a cd key or codes in your manual. This later escalated to online activated cd keys. At the very least, these forms of drm didn’t run all the time like steam did- I remember steam getting huge pushback (from myself included) because it ran like absolute dogshit. Later forms of drm got worse with checks in the discs that collected data on your pc (securom, anyone?). Steam did a lot of good things but it did not erase drm- it merely created another form of it (I.e. You no longer own your games, you are buying licenses they can revoke at any time)

      N 1 Reply Last reply
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      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
        This post did not contain any content.
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        Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

        While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

        favicon

        Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

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        Mwa
        wrote last edited by mwa@thelemmy.club
        #139

        i think personally Steam’s/Valve’s dominance is really good here’s why:

        • Improving Linux gaming,improving Wine and DXVK for gaming,so you dont rely on Microsoft for your OS.
        • Great client(i like the: inbuilt Chromium based browser,Community features)
        • Not so awful and maybe simple DRM methods(eg, needing the Steam client doesnt tank the performance that much,compared to something like denuvo which i think makes modding impossible,needs consistent internet connection,and tanks the game’s fps alot )
        • I can buy with cash giftcard to buy games(I wish GOG had that)
        • Workshop for modding on supported games.(ik some games have workshop and dont let you mod everything)
        • Makes/has good games(Half-life 2 is the best game i ever played)

        but the bad things:

        • Steam Client is still 32 bit and Steam doesnt target ARM(E,G. For like M1+ macs,those need rosetta )
        • third party clients arent a option
        • You dont own anything you buy on Steam.
        • Having the Steam client open at all times(ik not all games have this, but i assume CEF based Steam will lower the performance like slightly)
        • TF2 neglect
        • lootboxes/battle pass in some games(i am aware Valve was the first company to have a battle pass and fortnite popularized it)
          alright thats what i think of the Good and bad of Valve/Steam

        Edit: Fixed Paragraph break.

        Tlaloc_TemporalT 1 Reply Last reply
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        • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

          Steam kinda killed gaming piracy for many. Hope they won’t go the Netflix way in the future.

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          Mwa
          wrote last edited by mwa@thelemmy.club
          #140

          i kinda agree:
          but its still possible to pirate some Steam games without the Steam Client,
          and some still require it.

          1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • P prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone

            This is directly from the comment I replied to:

            I would buy from GOG too, if they provided Linux support in form of an official launcher

            No need for an official launcher when you can just use Steam as a launcher.

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            wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org
            wrote last edited by wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org
            #141

            Steam does more than launch games, you realize this, right? They want gog to have a launcher on Linux that will manage their library for them, not just launch their game.

            P 1 Reply Last reply
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            • W wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org

              Steam does more than launch games, you realize this, right? They want gog to have a launcher on Linux that will manage their library for them, not just launch their game.

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              prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              wrote last edited by
              #142

              Hold on, IT DOES?

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • T tommysoda@lemmy.world

                I feel like they’ve earned it because they’ve put in the most work. They are the best in the game because they make the user experience the best there is. EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft have/had their own storefronts or launchers but they are clunky and unpleasant to deal with and the only benefits they had were exclusives. They’ve never put any effort into user experience and were mainly doing it to make themselves more money and it definitely showed. The only one that’s ever been a real competitor is Epic Launcher. And while it has gotten better over the years, the user experience is still not anywhere near Steam. And even now the Epic Launcher is still unpleasant to deal with in a lot of cases unless you just use it to play Fortnite.

                With Steam everything just works and is basically seamless. Not only that, before Steam the modding community for most games had an immense learning curve and most people just avoided it save for Minecraft. And as far as I can tell you can’t even mod games you buy on the Microsoft Store because their file structure is atrocious.

                The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                T This user is from outside of this forum
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                theparadox@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #143

                While Steam is more or less the best big solution we have, it does leave a lot to be desired. The only reason they are the best is because they clawed their way to the top early, kept themselves “good enough” compared to the competition, and haven’t yet sold out their entire customer base.

                At this point, they completely dominate. It’s insanely difficult to compete with them. So long as they make half of an effort to improve things and continue to be somewhat benevolent they’ll likely keep their crown.

                However, Valve is not ideal. They are still looking out for themselves, primarily. Many of Valves improvements have just been reactions to competitors and other threats not an inherent desire to deliver the best product possible or do the right thing. It’s just the fact that most competitors are more obviously greedy and immoral that makes Valve look like the heroes.

                Without Epic and others throwing cash on the fire trying to compete I doubt we’d have seen even the slow upgrades to the Steam experience we’ve seen in recent years.

                Without the Australian lawsuit, we’d have no return policy.

                Without the clever abuse of arbitration by a group of lawyers, Valve would still have forced arbitration in the agreements.

                Steam OS was only a thing, and Proton only got backed by Valve, when Microsoft first started positioning itself to eat Valve’s lunch by exerting control over Windows and pushing for things like UWP and the MS/Windows/XBOX storefronts on PC.

                The vast majority of Valve’s storefront improvements are algorithms and crowd sourcing solutions. They want to be as hands off as possible because being hands on is hard and comes with liability. The whole skins market and gambling fiasco kind of shows that they’d much rather just not get involved if possible - same risk/reward cost/benefit analysis used by every greedy company. If that means lying about how aware they are of it that’s what they’ll do.

                Don’t get me wrong. The least worst is, unfortunately, the best we’ve got. I love gaming and use Steam a lot. It’s just that the other big players are just so terrible that I think Valve gets a free pass. Hell, much of the tech industry is swallowing tactical nukes hoping that the radiation will somehow mutate them into a good business. In the meantime they are using the illusion of “expansion” from the resulting explosions to make themselves look bigger for investors. I support anyone not doing that.

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                • I Cast FistI I Cast Fist

                  How to explain Steam’s success on PC for console players: “Think of it like the X1 vs PS4 era. Steam is the PS4 and every competitor was the Xbox One”

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                  ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote last edited by
                  #144

                  That’s far to generous to other companies, they were far more like the WiiU.

                  I Cast FistI 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • T thirdconsul@lemmy.ml

                    I simply do not understand the sentiment that not being a total bastard is something celebrated and not expected or required.

                    And while many like our Steam benevolent (almost) monopoly, I do wonder how would the market look like if we had 20 competing companies that cannot gain more than 5% of the market share. Can you imagine the competition between them and how would that benefit us, the consumer?

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                    ryathal@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #145

                    Honestly 20 different companies would probably suck for the consumer. That’s 20 different storefronts to compare, 20 different libraries to manage, potentially 20 different sets of logins, 20 sources of data breaches. It’s unlikely they would adopt an open standard to allow a shared library. Maybe you have a 21st company that makes a product like heroic launcher. You’d likely run into regionality issues where a particular store is unavailable, so you may not be able to play purchased games. You would have all sorts of odd exclusive dlc and pre order bonuses so a cosmetic item you like could be locked to a store you haven’t used. Multiplayer likely wouldn’t be global cross play between all companies, you likely get some set of 20 companies working together for multiplayer. Some games may develop a good scene available to a single store, requiring a game to be repurchased. Exclusives or timed exclusives would be annoying to track, as each store would likely have different catalogs.

                    Tlaloc_TemporalT 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • T thirdconsul@lemmy.ml

                      Exclusives are a bastard child of oligopoly, where the distribution platform has more power than the publisher.

                      Before Steam physical games were NEVER sold only in ToysR, they were sold in all shops.

                      I This user is from outside of this forum
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                      ironbird@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #146

                      they’re still sold everywhere…just nobody buys em cause why the fuck would you when you can buy em online?

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • B bastion@feddit.nl

                        Yeah. Steam is fucking solid.

                        I This user is from outside of this forum
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                        ironbird@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #147

                        step aside jesus, we have a new savior and his name is gaben

                        B 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • W wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org

                          You make it sound like drm didn’t exist before steam or like steam isn’t a form of drm itself. Old drm was more basic and far less nefarious, like entering a cd key or codes in your manual. This later escalated to online activated cd keys. At the very least, these forms of drm didn’t run all the time like steam did- I remember steam getting huge pushback (from myself included) because it ran like absolute dogshit. Later forms of drm got worse with checks in the discs that collected data on your pc (securom, anyone?). Steam did a lot of good things but it did not erase drm- it merely created another form of it (I.e. You no longer own your games, you are buying licenses they can revoke at any time)

                          N This user is from outside of this forum
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                          nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                          wrote last edited by
                          #148

                          I remember CD keys but that’s about it

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • I ironbird@lemmy.world

                            step aside jesus, we have a new savior and his name is gaben

                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            bastion@feddit.nl
                            wrote last edited by
                            #149

                            Benevolent dictators are great, but like pet goldfish, they eventually die, and the next fish might be an asshole you have to flush down the toilet.

                            This is intentionally word salad.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            • T thirdconsul@lemmy.ml

                              Exclusives are a bastard child of oligopoly, where the distribution platform has more power than the publisher.

                              Before Steam physical games were NEVER sold only in ToysR, they were sold in all shops.

                              tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tattorack@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #150

                              No, that’s pretty wrong. There absolutely were exclusive store releases, or temporary releases where one store would get a certain game a whole month early.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • S shaggysnacks@lemmy.myserv.one

                                And while many like our Steam benevolent (almost) monopoly, I do wonder how would the market look like if we had 20 competing companies that cannot gain more than 5% of the market share. Can you imagine the competition between them and how would that benefit us, the consumer?

                                More comptetion wouldn’t just benefit consumers, it would benefit devs. A dev could shop their game around go with a store front that suits their needs better.

                                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattorack@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tattorack@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by
                                #151

                                If I’m going to need to install several different clients/launcher on my computer just to keep up with where games get published, I’ll just resort to piracy.

                                Being forced to install some shitty client to run a specific game has been a deal breaker for me in the past. And there is no guarantee that other “competing” platforms will bother making Linux versions of their clients.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • M Mwa

                                  i think personally Steam’s/Valve’s dominance is really good here’s why:

                                  • Improving Linux gaming,improving Wine and DXVK for gaming,so you dont rely on Microsoft for your OS.
                                  • Great client(i like the: inbuilt Chromium based browser,Community features)
                                  • Not so awful and maybe simple DRM methods(eg, needing the Steam client doesnt tank the performance that much,compared to something like denuvo which i think makes modding impossible,needs consistent internet connection,and tanks the game’s fps alot )
                                  • I can buy with cash giftcard to buy games(I wish GOG had that)
                                  • Workshop for modding on supported games.(ik some games have workshop and dont let you mod everything)
                                  • Makes/has good games(Half-life 2 is the best game i ever played)

                                  but the bad things:

                                  • Steam Client is still 32 bit and Steam doesnt target ARM(E,G. For like M1+ macs,those need rosetta )
                                  • third party clients arent a option
                                  • You dont own anything you buy on Steam.
                                  • Having the Steam client open at all times(ik not all games have this, but i assume CEF based Steam will lower the performance like slightly)
                                  • TF2 neglect
                                  • lootboxes/battle pass in some games(i am aware Valve was the first company to have a battle pass and fortnite popularized it)
                                    alright thats what i think of the Good and bad of Valve/Steam

                                  Edit: Fixed Paragraph break.

                                  Tlaloc_TemporalT This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  Tlaloc_Temporal
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #152

                                  I think you switched to cons without saying.

                                  I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

                                  M J M 3 Replies Last reply
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                                  • M mindbleach@sh.itjust.works

                                    None of that is what defines a monopoly.

                                    There’s only one store that matters. They have unthreatened supermajority marketshare. Customers go there by default - sometimes exclusively. Developers can sell there, or they’re basically fucked.

                                    What you’re concerned about are anti-competitive practices. But some businesses don’t need those, to lack any relevant competition. It can just happen. They didn’t do anything wrong. They’re still monopolies.

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                                    fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #153

                                    If they’re not doing anything wrong what’s the problem

                                    M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • nuko147@lemmy.worldN nuko147@lemmy.world

                                      Steam kinda killed gaming piracy for many. Hope they won’t go the Netflix way in the future.

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                                      fleur_@lemmynsfw.com
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #154

                                      They did for me, then my cost of living went up along with the cost of games. Now I’ll only buy games that I intend to play multiplayer

                                      nuko147@lemmy.worldN 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • F fleur_@lemmynsfw.com

                                        If they’re not doing anything wrong what’s the problem

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                                        mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #155

                                        Maybe there isn’t one.

                                        This is what I’m talking about: people think monopoly = bad, so if I say Valve has a monopoly, I must want them burned to the ground. Nah. They’re mostly fine. Having only one good option is precarious, but it is still a good option. For now.

                                        But they’re still a monopoly. We should say so, because it’s true, and important. It shapes the entire PC gaming market.

                                        F 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Tlaloc_TemporalT Tlaloc_Temporal

                                          I think you switched to cons without saying.

                                          I admit I haven’t tried very many, but I think you can launch any steam app “normally” without steam running. If you can find the executable or startup script, you can just point a shortcut to it. Some games will need Steam Services to run, but it’s not blocked or anything.

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                                          mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #156

                                          There’s a ‘but the bad things’ buried in the middle, desperately wanting a line break.

                                          I did the same thing initially and tried re-reading it as sass. Especially if “TF2 neglect” was considered positive.

                                          M 1 Reply Last reply
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