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  3. City Raccoons Are Evolving to Look More Like Pets

City Raccoons Are Evolving to Look More Like Pets

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  • C calliope@retrolemmy.com

    Wow that’s interesting!

    The study lays out the case that the domestication process is often wrongly thought of as initiated by humans—with people capturing and selectively breeding wild animals. But the study authors claim that the process begins much earlier, when animals become habituated to human environments.

    “One thing about us humans is that, wherever we go, we produce a lot of trash,” says the study’s co-author and University of Arkansas at Little Rock biologist Raffaela Lesch. Piles of human scraps offer a bottomless buffet to wildlife, and to access that bounty, animals need to be bold enough to rummage through human rubbish but not so bold as to become a threat to people.

    This has absolutely blown my mind. I don’t think I’ve ever considered that, obviously.

    southsamuraiS This user is from outside of this forum
    southsamuraiS This user is from outside of this forum
    southsamurai
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Yeah, if you ever run across the theories of how dogs became so close to us, it started with wolves being willing to take the risks of scavenging near us, and eventually co-evolving (until selective breeding started).

    Actively, intentionally domesticating a species is a slow process overall, and it wasn’t something that I’ve seen any specialists suggest would have been the case with dogs, or cats.

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    • leadore@lemmy.worldL This user is from outside of this forum
      leadore@lemmy.worldL This user is from outside of this forum
      leadore@lemmy.world
      wrote on last edited by leadore@lemmy.world
      #19

      My point is that the change in length is only 3.5%, not more than someone would notice when deciding to taking a photo.

      The 3.5% change in snout length is one sign of domestication starting to happen, not a sign that people will be more likely to take a photo—that idea was just the speculation of a commenter.

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      • leadore@lemmy.worldL leadore@lemmy.world

        My point is that the change in length is only 3.5%, not more than someone would notice when deciding to taking a photo.

        The 3.5% change in snout length is one sign of domestication starting to happen, not a sign that people will be more likely to take a photo—that idea was just the speculation of a commenter.

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
        angrystego@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by angrystego@lemmy.world
        #20

        If it was not noticeably cuter, then it would cause no advantage and the theory falls. (Which is possible, of course.)

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        • S shalafi@lemmy.world

          I think the hangup is thinking evolution can’t proceed quickly. We were taught in school that evolution take millions of years and we resist the idea that it can move quickly.

          We’ve been figuring out over the last two decades that evolution can move fast, given enough selective pressure.

          Arguing with a reasonalbe Christian on reddit 10-years back; Said African elephants were growing smaller, or no tusks, in response to poaching. He called it “breeding”. I call it hella selective pressure. Same difference?

          dadarobotD This user is from outside of this forum
          dadarobotD This user is from outside of this forum
          dadarobot
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          i think also the concept of “survival of the fittest” was like an alpha thing; who fought nature and won. versus fittest being more about fitting into the environment better. the best fit for the specific environment.

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          • C calliope@retrolemmy.com

            Wow that’s interesting!

            The study lays out the case that the domestication process is often wrongly thought of as initiated by humans—with people capturing and selectively breeding wild animals. But the study authors claim that the process begins much earlier, when animals become habituated to human environments.

            “One thing about us humans is that, wherever we go, we produce a lot of trash,” says the study’s co-author and University of Arkansas at Little Rock biologist Raffaela Lesch. Piles of human scraps offer a bottomless buffet to wildlife, and to access that bounty, animals need to be bold enough to rummage through human rubbish but not so bold as to become a threat to people.

            This has absolutely blown my mind. I don’t think I’ve ever considered that, obviously.

            P This user is from outside of this forum
            P This user is from outside of this forum
            porcoesphino@mander.xyz
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            In that case you might like the PBS Eons video on the domestication of house cats (and it touches on some of the generalised processes):

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CYPJzQppANo

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            • C cm0002@no.lastname.nz
              This post did not contain any content.
              P This user is from outside of this forum
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              porcoesphino@mander.xyz
              wrote on last edited by
              #23

              I’m surprised the article doesn’t mention the six decade long silver fox domestication experiment:

              https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-018-0090-x

              They bred the tamest foxes from each generation and started seeing shortened snouts and floppy ears. Although there is some dispute about the initial population from a study in 2019. To my understanding the researchers with the dispute question the existence of domestication syndrome though, so the experiment would still align with the article. And I think there is some dispute over the neural crest cell explanation mentioned in the article too.

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              • C cm0002@no.lastname.nz
                This post did not contain any content.
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                kn1ghtdigital@lemmy.zip
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                If you’re cold, they’re cold. Let the trash panda inside your house.

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                • S shalafi@lemmy.world

                  I’ve felt that dogs have taken the same path. Notice how expressive their facial muscles are? Wolves don’t have nearly so many facial muscles. Wild to learn about isn’t it?!

                  E This user is from outside of this forum
                  E This user is from outside of this forum
                  Enkrod
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #25

                  Wolves also do not understand pointing, most other human gestures and they can not read human emotions through our faces. Dogs can understand all that. Humans and dogs have co-evolved for such a long time that our species now have a deep instinctual understanding of each other.

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                  • P porcoesphino@mander.xyz

                    I’m surprised the article doesn’t mention the six decade long silver fox domestication experiment:

                    https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-018-0090-x

                    They bred the tamest foxes from each generation and started seeing shortened snouts and floppy ears. Although there is some dispute about the initial population from a study in 2019. To my understanding the researchers with the dispute question the existence of domestication syndrome though, so the experiment would still align with the article. And I think there is some dispute over the neural crest cell explanation mentioned in the article too.

                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    bronzebeard@lemmy.zip
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #26

                    I just learned about this the other day and it immediately came to mind when I saw this article.

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                    • A angrystego@lemmy.world

                      If it was not noticeably cuter, then it would cause no advantage and the theory falls. (Which is possible, of course.)

                      _ This user is from outside of this forum
                      _ This user is from outside of this forum
                      _stranger_@lemmy.world
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      On a 5cm snout, 3.5% is less than 2 mm. You not only wouldn’t notice it with the naked eye, it’s almost a small enough difference to get lost in the noise .

                      The study is saying they’re already seeing these imperceptible differences in racoons they’re measuring.

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                      • M minorkeys@lemmy.world

                        We are more hostile to ugly raccoons and more often helpful to cute ones. This isn’t evolution, it’s selective extinction based on cuteness, would be my guess. One example of the power humans have in shaping the natural world around what our emotions tell us to.

                        Ricky RigatoniR This user is from outside of this forum
                        Ricky RigatoniR This user is from outside of this forum
                        Ricky Rigatoni
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #28

                        There is no such thing as an ugly raccoon.

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                        • C calliope@retrolemmy.com

                          Wow that’s interesting!

                          The study lays out the case that the domestication process is often wrongly thought of as initiated by humans—with people capturing and selectively breeding wild animals. But the study authors claim that the process begins much earlier, when animals become habituated to human environments.

                          “One thing about us humans is that, wherever we go, we produce a lot of trash,” says the study’s co-author and University of Arkansas at Little Rock biologist Raffaela Lesch. Piles of human scraps offer a bottomless buffet to wildlife, and to access that bounty, animals need to be bold enough to rummage through human rubbish but not so bold as to become a threat to people.

                          This has absolutely blown my mind. I don’t think I’ve ever considered that, obviously.

                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                          canadaplus@lemmy.sdf.org
                          wrote on last edited by canadaplus@lemmy.sdf.org
                          #29

                          It’s a popular theory about why dogs were domesticated so much earlier than everything else. Wolves have a remarkably similar lifestyle to human hunter gatherers, and so early dogs could live either in parallel or in close proximity as conditions demanded. With other creatures, like pigs or horses, humans had to run a program and do so consistently for domestication to work. In some places, semi-feral dogs are still a common sight.

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                          • M minorkeys@lemmy.world

                            We are more hostile to ugly raccoons and more often helpful to cute ones. This isn’t evolution, it’s selective extinction based on cuteness, would be my guess. One example of the power humans have in shaping the natural world around what our emotions tell us to.

                            theneverfox@pawb.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                            theneverfox@pawb.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                            theneverfox@pawb.social
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #30

                            Yeah, I don’t think racoons are anywhere near going extinct…They’re really well adapted to living on the fringes of human society

                            Also, it’s not just preference. Cuter is less threatening, and for the noble North American trash panda? Convincing humans to help them escape dumpsters is practically part of their life cycle

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                            • southsamuraiS southsamurai

                              You assume it’s a one-way street.

                              Humans having a proclivity towards “cute” animals is as much an evolved trait as animals becoming “cuter” to better adapt to presence.

                              Hell, for that matter, it isn’t just us that have a proclivity towards “cuteness”. It exists in plenty of species, we just tend to be the ones most prone to it outside of very similar species.

                              It is absolutely evolution because it isn’t selective.

                              F This user is from outside of this forum
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                              floofloof@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #31

                              I don’t understand your last sentence. Selection a main mechanism of evolution.

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                              • C cm0002@no.lastname.nz
                                This post did not contain any content.
                                BizzleB This user is from outside of this forum
                                BizzleB This user is from outside of this forum
                                Bizzle
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #32

                                My across the street neighbor feeds the racoons cat food. They rip up my garden and antagonize my dogs all night. I tried to scare one away just last night by yelling and waving my arms, but they just stared at me like “yeah ok dude” and went back to their racoon business. They are not afraid of people in the slightest and you could probably pet one if you were so inclined. It sucks 😅

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                                • C cm0002@no.lastname.nz
                                  This post did not contain any content.
                                  F This user is from outside of this forum
                                  F This user is from outside of this forum
                                  fostermolasses@leminal.space
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #33

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                                  • M minorkeys@lemmy.world

                                    We are more hostile to ugly raccoons and more often helpful to cute ones. This isn’t evolution, it’s selective extinction based on cuteness, would be my guess. One example of the power humans have in shaping the natural world around what our emotions tell us to.

                                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    turdburglar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #34

                                    that is what evoulution is, internet friend.

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                                    • E Enkrod

                                      Wolves also do not understand pointing, most other human gestures and they can not read human emotions through our faces. Dogs can understand all that. Humans and dogs have co-evolved for such a long time that our species now have a deep instinctual understanding of each other.

                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      moncharleskey@lemmy.zip
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #35

                                      My dogs definitely do not understand pointing! No arguing, they just don’t get it, though they could be trained to I’m sure.

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                                      • S shalafi@lemmy.world

                                        I think the hangup is thinking evolution can’t proceed quickly. We were taught in school that evolution take millions of years and we resist the idea that it can move quickly.

                                        We’ve been figuring out over the last two decades that evolution can move fast, given enough selective pressure.

                                        Arguing with a reasonalbe Christian on reddit 10-years back; Said African elephants were growing smaller, or no tusks, in response to poaching. He called it “breeding”. I call it hella selective pressure. Same difference?

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        stray@pawb.social
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #36

                                        The example of elephants producing less ivory for us to poach is unintentional selective breeding, yeah. Evolution works way faster when directed by an intelligence than when it’s left up to a relatively stable environment, simply because we exert more pressure for change.

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                                        • dadarobotD dadarobot

                                          i think also the concept of “survival of the fittest” was like an alpha thing; who fought nature and won. versus fittest being more about fitting into the environment better. the best fit for the specific environment.

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          shalafi@lemmy.world
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #37

                                          “Survival of the fittest” has been around a long, long time and now we know better.

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