Giving men a common antidepressant could help tackle domestic violence: world-first study
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Many participants had issues such as homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Society is unwilling to help these men in desperate need of help until it is proven that it will help women first
What a weird thing to take away from the article.
Certainly you can think of at least a few organizations tackling homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Seriously it’s a single study into another topic. That’s just how science works. I’ll never understand when people get mad that a study exists and that it is somehow unable to cover every possibility of a complex topic in a single study.
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You’re actually going with “well they started it”? I guess men are finishing it, then.
Responding to a fallacy with a fallacy doesn’t really help either.
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Why couldn’t you just respond like that to me?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
Thank you for your comment, and welcome to my blocklist.
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The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices
Violent, reoffending adults who specifically engage in domestic violence - and I clarified that it should be as part of their incarceration/probation. Such restrictions already exist in certain cases as terms for probation and it doesn’t always revolve around protecting children.
Probation officers handle this just fine, there is no need for licenses affecting all adults. You twisted what I said, just admit it.
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This study suggests that reduced sex drive is the most common side effect, but it impacts about 1/10. I can find no evidence that it is permanent (though see comments below!); stopping the drug should return most folks to normal.
Compare this treatment to incarceration: would you prefer to be less horny and free, or in jail? See also the patient reports in the article, talking about finally having some control in their lives.
I can find no evidence that it is permanent; stopping the drug should return most folks to normal.
Most, but not all: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12991-023-00447-0
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Many participants had issues such as homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Society is unwilling to help these men in desperate need of help until it is proven that it will help women first
I’m reading the study to find the part where it says that these participants didn’t have any social or societal support to attempt to deal with their other problems.
Oh right - sorry I see now that you were just vocalising the chip on your shoulder.
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Ah shit I would love to take more antidepressants that will let me punch women in the face less which I already do 0 of!
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That’s cool, I never really deeply considered how important impulse control is in emotional regulation.
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That’s excellent news. The random tiktok videos inserted into the article are still making me lose my cool, though.
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If they put fluoride in drinking water, they can put this in protein shakes and those shower gels that come in the angular gunmetal-coloured containers
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You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices
Violent, reoffending adults who specifically engage in domestic violence - and I clarified that it should be as part of their incarceration/probation. Such restrictions already exist in certain cases as terms for probation and it doesn’t always revolve around protecting children.
Probation officers handle this just fine, there is no need for licenses affecting all adults. You twisted what I said, just admit it.
Every one of your replies simply adds rhetorical flair to my assertion that you are proposing the government should have regulatory power over the rights of adults to engage in private consensual relationships, which would be handled by the criminal legal system.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
From one of the abstracts.
Gay patients (aOR = 5.50; 95% CI = [1.60, 18.94]) and females (aOR = 2.70; 95% CI = [1.46, 9.99]) had significantly higher odds of reporting physical or sexual IPV than heterosexuals and males, respectively.
So it’s over reported more, that’s your evidence?
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Every one of your replies simply adds rhetorical flair to my assertion that you are proposing the government should have regulatory power over the rights of adults to engage in private consensual relationships, which would be handled by the criminal legal system.
Not once did I suggest all adults and I never suggested licensing. Re-read.
Condition. For. Probation. Or. Incarceration. That’s the nuance and it’s not “rhetorical flair”. You misread or you are in bad faith.
Such a system already exists in some individual people’s terms for probation and adults don’t need to get a license.
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Every one of your replies simply adds rhetorical flair to my assertion that you are proposing the government should have regulatory power over the rights of adults to engage in private consensual relationships, which would be handled by the criminal legal system.
Yes, all adults.
Unless you’re proposing that these people on your offender lists are only allowed to date other offenders.
You are saying that person B is not allowed to date person A, even if both adults consent to enter a relationship, because one of those parties can be sent to jail for the crime of entering into a private consensual adult relationship.
Ergo, you have removed the ability of both parties to have a mutually consensual relationship of their choosing.
You haven’t even left the confines of Lemmy, and you’re already running headfirst into unintended consequences.
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That’s excellent news. The random tiktok videos inserted into the article are still making me lose my cool, though.
More sertraline for you.
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Yes, all adults.
Unless you’re proposing that these people on your offender lists are only allowed to date other offenders.
You are saying that person B is not allowed to date person A, even if both adults consent to enter a relationship, because one of those parties can be sent to jail for the crime of entering into a private consensual adult relationship.
Ergo, you have removed the ability of both parties to have a mutually consensual relationship of their choosing.
You haven’t even left the confines of Lemmy, and you’re already running headfirst into unintended consequences.
You replied to yourself and meant to reply to this comment:
Not once did I suggest all adults and I never suggested licensing. Re-read.
Condition. For. Probation. Or. Incarceration. That’s the nuance and it’s not “rhetorical flair”. You misread or you are in bad faith.
Such a system already exists in some individual people’s terms for probation and adults don’t need to get a license.
Probation is an established system. You suggested licensing I’m not engaging with you anymore because that’s not my argument. It’s your spin.
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You replied to yourself and meant to reply to this comment:
Not once did I suggest all adults and I never suggested licensing. Re-read.
Condition. For. Probation. Or. Incarceration. That’s the nuance and it’s not “rhetorical flair”. You misread or you are in bad faith.
Such a system already exists in some individual people’s terms for probation and adults don’t need to get a license.
Probation is an established system. You suggested licensing I’m not engaging with you anymore because that’s not my argument. It’s your spin.
Just because I’m pointing out just some of the deeply unjust and inherent flaws in your proposal, doesn’t mean it’s spin.
You realize that you’re not making these arguments on a libertarian forum, right?
The vast majority of us here are left wing and not inherently opposed to the concept of government or regulation, yet the vast majority of us here seem very much opposed to your ideas.
Just some food for thought.
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I’m reading the study to find the part where it says that these participants didn’t have any social or societal support to attempt to deal with their other problems.
Oh right - sorry I see now that you were just vocalising the chip on your shoulder.
The homeless and those with untreated mental health disorders don’t have social or societal support, or they wouldn’t be homeless and untreated.
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And impotence I’m sure. So, a two-fer
As someone who’s battled chronic depression since 1989, I can tell you that of all the antidepressants I have tried (just about all of them) only one triggered erectile dysfunction and it went away once I stopped taking the pill. None reduced my sexual appetite, some actually increased it (one dramatically). The most common sexual side effect I found was difficulty climaxing, which combined with increased sexual appetite made for some extended and amazing sex.
