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  3. Larian's head writer has a simple answer for how AI-generated text helps development: 'It doesn't,' thanks to its best output being 'a 3/10 at best' worse than his worst drafts

Larian's head writer has a simple answer for how AI-generated text helps development: 'It doesn't,' thanks to its best output being 'a 3/10 at best' worse than his worst drafts

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  • L lemming6969@lemmy.world

    It’s assuming the ai output isn’t very good. It assumes it can create a framework that necessarily still needs the actual writers, but now they don’t have to come up with 100% of the framework, but instead work on the actual content only. Storyboarding and frameworking is a hodgepodge of nonsense anyway with humans. The goal is to achieve non-linear scaling, not replace quality writers or have the final product Ai written.

    xthexder@l.sw0.comX This user is from outside of this forum
    xthexder@l.sw0.comX This user is from outside of this forum
    xthexder@l.sw0.com
    wrote last edited by
    #37

    This sounds like it takes away a huge amount of creative freedom from the writers if the AI is specifying the framework. It’d be like letting the AI write the plot, but then having real writers fill in details along the way, which sounds like a good way to have the story go nowhere interesting.

    I’m not a writer, but if I was to apply this strategy to programming, which I am familiar with, it’d be like letting the AI decide what all the features are, and then I’d have to go and build them. Considering more than half my job is stuff other than actually writing code, this seems overly reductive, and underestimates how much human experience matters in deciding a framework and direction.

    L 1 Reply Last reply
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    • LeonD This user is from outside of this forum
      LeonD This user is from outside of this forum
      Leon
      wrote last edited by
      #38

      Well yeah, I’m not going to argue that a well made game that respects the player isn’t going to do well. But that doesn’t matter to the publishers and their shareholders when they can pump out AI slop garbage year after year and still have people that drink it up. Just look at the yearly shooters and sports games, they sell enough.

      Besides, what happens when this sort of slop has been normalised? Look at the mobile market, no one bats an eye at the intensely predatory microtransactions, and you’ll even find people defending things like gacha games.

      There was a time where people scoffed at the notion of paying $2~ for some shitty cosmetics, but now people don’t even blink at the idea. Hell, it’s downright cheap in some cases. The AAA industry just has to slop things up for long enough for people to stop caring, because they will stop caring and then continue to shell out for the dubious privilege of guzzling their mediocre, uninspiring garbage.

      1 Reply Last reply
      1
      • CoelacanthC Coelacanth

        Yes, this is it right here. The whole point of art is communication and connection with another human being.

        apotheotic (she/her)A This user is from outside of this forum
        apotheotic (she/her)A This user is from outside of this forum
        apotheotic (she/her)
        wrote last edited by
        #39

        Not even necessarily a human being! I’d appreciate the fuck out of art if any species made it. But there must be more than uncaring, unfeeling, probabilistic interpretation of input data.

        D 1 Reply Last reply
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        • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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          Larian's head writer has a simple answer for how AI-generated text helps development: 'It doesn't,' thanks to its best output being 'a 3/10 at best' worse than his worst drafts

          My worst drafts are a 5/10 but I might have lower standards.

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          hperrin@lemmy.ca
          wrote last edited by
          #40

          I think the reason so many AI bros are conservative is that conservatives have historically had really bad taste in art/media, so they see the drivel AI creates and think, “oh wow, it looks just like what the artists make,” not realizing that they don’t have the eye to see what it’s missing.

          M 1 Reply Last reply
          44
          • B baracoded@literature.cafe

            Writer having toyed with AI, here : yeah, AI writing sucks. It is consensual and bland, never goes into unexpected territory, or completely fails to understand human nature.

            So, we’d better stop calling AI “intelligence”. It’s text-prediction machine learning on steroïds, nothing more, and the fact that we’re still calling that “intelligence” says how gullible we all are.

            It’s just another speculative bubble from the tech bros, as cryptos were, except this time the tech bros have made their nazi coming out.

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            RobotsLeftHand
            wrote last edited by treesapx@lemmy.world
            #41

            I remember reading a longer post on lemmy. The person was describing their slow realization that the political beliefs they were raised with were leading down a dark path. It was a process that took many years, and the story was full of little moments where cracks in his world view widened and the seed of doubt grew.

            And someone who was bored/overwhelmed with having to read a post over three sentences long fed the story into AI to make a short summary. They then posted that summary as a “fixed your post, bro” moment. So basically all the humanity removed. Reminds me of that famous “If the Gettysburg Address were a PowerPoint” https://norvig.com/Gettysburg/

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            • D ddcno1@beehaw.org

              Sure, but human-written shit still had that human touch. It could be unintentionally funny, it could be a mixed bag that reaches unexpected heights at times. AI writing is just the bland kind of bad, not the interesting kind of bad.

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              RobotsLeftHand
              wrote last edited by
              #42

              All your base are belong to us.

              R 1 Reply Last reply
              10
              • T RobotsLeftHand

                All your base are belong to us.

                R This user is from outside of this forum
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                RollingZeppelin
                wrote last edited by
                #43

                I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with liiiiight!

                1 Reply Last reply
                1
                • T RobotsLeftHand

                  I remember reading a longer post on lemmy. The person was describing their slow realization that the political beliefs they were raised with were leading down a dark path. It was a process that took many years, and the story was full of little moments where cracks in his world view widened and the seed of doubt grew.

                  And someone who was bored/overwhelmed with having to read a post over three sentences long fed the story into AI to make a short summary. They then posted that summary as a “fixed your post, bro” moment. So basically all the humanity removed. Reminds me of that famous “If the Gettysburg Address were a PowerPoint” https://norvig.com/Gettysburg/

                  Z This user is from outside of this forum
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                  ZC3rr0r
                  wrote last edited by
                  #44

                  Sounds like an interesting read, got a link to said post?

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • M melsaskca@lemmy.ca

                    That means in about 6 months or so the AI content quality will be about an 8/10. The processors spread machine “learning” incredibly fast. Some might even say exponentially fast. Pretty soon it’ll be like that old song “If you wonder why your letters never get a reply, when you tell me that you love me, I want to see you write it”. “Letters” is an old version of one-on-one tweeting, but with no character limit.

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                    arkthos@pawb.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #45

                    I doubt that. A lot of the poor writing quality comes down to choice. All the most powerful models are inherently trained to be bland, seek harmony with the user, and generally come across as kind of slimy in a typically corporate sort of way. This bleeds into the writing style pretty heavily.

                    A model trained specifically for creative writing without such a focus would probably do better. We’ll see.

                    H 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • xthexder@l.sw0.comX xthexder@l.sw0.com

                      This sounds like it takes away a huge amount of creative freedom from the writers if the AI is specifying the framework. It’d be like letting the AI write the plot, but then having real writers fill in details along the way, which sounds like a good way to have the story go nowhere interesting.

                      I’m not a writer, but if I was to apply this strategy to programming, which I am familiar with, it’d be like letting the AI decide what all the features are, and then I’d have to go and build them. Considering more than half my job is stuff other than actually writing code, this seems overly reductive, and underestimates how much human experience matters in deciding a framework and direction.

                      L This user is from outside of this forum
                      L This user is from outside of this forum
                      lemming6969@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by lemming6969@lemmy.world
                      #46

                      Even in programming there are common feature frameworks. Having a system enumerate them based on a unified design vision from a single source architect rather than 50 different design ideas duct taped together could help a lot. I’ve seen some horrendous systems where you can tell a bunch of totally separate visions were frankenstein’d together, and the same happens in games where you can tell different groups wrote different sections.

                      xthexder@l.sw0.comX 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • V voracitude@lemmy.world

                        Your first draft isn’t an unoriginal idea expressed clearly; it’s an original idea expressed poorly

                        I like this a lot. I’m going to thieve it.

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                        cheesenoodle@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #47

                        Tangentially related, the easiest way to come up with a unique and cool idea is to come up with a unique and dumb idea (which is way easier) and then work on it until it becomes cool. (Think how dumb some popular franchises concepts are if you take the raw idea out of context.)

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • sketchyseabeast@lemmy.caS sketchyseabeast@lemmy.ca

                          Great point. There’s no opportunity for “so bad it’s good”. The Room wouldn’t have been a thing if Tommy used AI.

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                          giveover@feddit.uk
                          wrote last edited by
                          #48

                          You’re absolutely right, Lisa!

                          Cevilia (she/they/…)C 1 Reply Last reply
                          7
                          • L lemming6969@lemmy.world

                            I can see how it could be useful, or mandatory in future rpgs. It can generate a framework for a real writer, with extremely large amounts of logical branching, a billion times faster. Then you go over the top of it and use the framework as concepts to use or revise. This streamlines the process, unifies the creative vision, and allows for such a large game without procedural generation that would haven taken a team 10 years or not at all, done in 2.

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                            shanmugha@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #49

                            Aand you end up with… ta-da-m, same old things, just rebranded. Very creative (no)

                            Cevilia (she/they/…)C 1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • M melsaskca@lemmy.ca

                              That means in about 6 months or so the AI content quality will be about an 8/10. The processors spread machine “learning” incredibly fast. Some might even say exponentially fast. Pretty soon it’ll be like that old song “If you wonder why your letters never get a reply, when you tell me that you love me, I want to see you write it”. “Letters” is an old version of one-on-one tweeting, but with no character limit.

                              S This user is from outside of this forum
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                              shanmugha@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #50

                              Wake me up when that happens. Like literally, @mention me somewhere

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              4
                              • M moonmelon@lemmy.ml

                                The dialog pushing AI media seems to start from this assumption that I consume media just to have colors and words and sounds enter my face holes. In fact, I consume art and media because I like hearing, seeing, and reading about how other humans experience the same world I do. It’s a form of communication. I like the product but also the process of people trying to capture the bonkers, ineffable experience we all seem to be sharing in ways I would never think of, but can instantly verify.

                                What’s funny is, due to the nature of media, it’s kind of impossible to not communicate something, even if the artwork itself is empty. When I see AI media I see the communication of a mind that doesn’t know or give a shit about any of this. So in their attempt make filler they are in fact making art about how inarticulate they are. It’s unintentional, corporate dadaism.

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                                queermunist she/her
                                wrote last edited by
                                #51

                                The people pushing AI don’t like like hearing, seeing, and reading about how other humans experience the world. They actually do just want flashing colors and sounds poured into their face holes. They’re basically incapable of understanding art.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                5
                                • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                                  This post did not contain any content.
                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Larian's head writer has a simple answer for how AI-generated text helps development: 'It doesn't,' thanks to its best output being 'a 3/10 at best' worse than his worst drafts

                                  My worst drafts are a 5/10 but I might have lower standards.

                                  favicon

                                  PC Gamer (www.pcgamer.com)

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                                  trslim@pawb.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #52

                                  AI is just a marketing term, there’s nothing intelligent about it. Its simply Large Language Models, databases that predict what should go next. Its like asking the prediction bar when you are typing to write a story.

                                  T 1 Reply Last reply
                                  25
                                  • T RobotsLeftHand

                                    I remember reading a longer post on lemmy. The person was describing their slow realization that the political beliefs they were raised with were leading down a dark path. It was a process that took many years, and the story was full of little moments where cracks in his world view widened and the seed of doubt grew.

                                    And someone who was bored/overwhelmed with having to read a post over three sentences long fed the story into AI to make a short summary. They then posted that summary as a “fixed your post, bro” moment. So basically all the humanity removed. Reminds me of that famous “If the Gettysburg Address were a PowerPoint” https://norvig.com/Gettysburg/

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                                    notmyoldredditname@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by notmyoldredditname@lemmy.world
                                    #53

                                    That’s really sad.

                                    I’ve used AI to help clean up my sentence structure for copy, but if I am not super explicit with it to not rewrite what I wrote, it will do as you said and take the human element out of it.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • L lemming6969@lemmy.world

                                      Even in programming there are common feature frameworks. Having a system enumerate them based on a unified design vision from a single source architect rather than 50 different design ideas duct taped together could help a lot. I’ve seen some horrendous systems where you can tell a bunch of totally separate visions were frankenstein’d together, and the same happens in games where you can tell different groups wrote different sections.

                                      xthexder@l.sw0.comX This user is from outside of this forum
                                      xthexder@l.sw0.comX This user is from outside of this forum
                                      xthexder@l.sw0.com
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #54

                                      I’ve seen some horrendous systems where you can tell a bunch of totally separate visions were frankenstein’d together

                                      My experience has been that using AI only accelerates this process, because the AI has no concept of what good architecture is or how to reduce entropy. Unless you can one-shot the entire architecture, it’s going to immediately go off the rails. And if the architecture was that simple to begin with, there really wasn’t much value in the AI in the first place.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
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                                        Larian's head writer has a simple answer for how AI-generated text helps development: 'It doesn't,' thanks to its best output being 'a 3/10 at best' worse than his worst drafts

                                        My worst drafts are a 5/10 but I might have lower standards.

                                        favicon

                                        PC Gamer (www.pcgamer.com)

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                                        auth@lemmy.world
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #55

                                        More Larian Aura farming. Please take a break you’re already full maxed out for community respect its actually getting unfair for other game developers.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        24
                                        • H hperrin@lemmy.ca

                                          I think the reason so many AI bros are conservative is that conservatives have historically had really bad taste in art/media, so they see the drivel AI creates and think, “oh wow, it looks just like what the artists make,” not realizing that they don’t have the eye to see what it’s missing.

                                          M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #56

                                          Behind the Bastards had a different take. A lot of fascist movements get wierdly focussed on futurism and try to portray their movements as belonging in said future. Unfortunately I can’t remember the exact episodes this was mentioned

                                          M merdaverse@lemmy.zipM B 3 Replies Last reply
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