If only Mastodon would spend time making the platform more usable, perhaps they would. e.g. the impersonation issue, which is much less of a problem on a non-federated platform, plus Bluesky takes a highly aggressive stance against it.

Also the enormous discoverability issue on Mastodon has lead people to say that “Mastodon seemed to actively discourage discoverability.” This article seems very worth reading btw, as many of the same issues plague the Threadiverse as well - hostility to non-technical normies, hostility towards anyone less ideologically pure than oneself, hostility towards… wait, am I sensing a pattern here!?!:-P Early adoptors (who are proficient in using Arch Linux btw) are quite a very different crowd and while yes scientists are smart, they are also smart enough to realize that moving from a place where their work can be seen to a place where it will not be is not a very productive endeavor, in the short-term, for themselves.

Edit: also, when the tools go for years and years and years and years without ever getting any better at solving the issues that matter most to them, it sends a signal that they aren’t welcomed. I will state that again, unequivocally: mainstream normies are not really welcomed onto the Fediverse. … … … am I wrong there? Do we welcome them even here, on the Threadiverse, or are there a myriad of rules that are nowhere written down, must be discovered by each new person, all the while people talk down to them, criticize and even laugh at them, plus also laugh at them behind their backs when they go back to Reddit and share their experiences here, warning others not to come? From what I read at r/RedditAlternatives, this usually is b/c of facing “leftist” toxicity, which I put in quotes b/c it’s not actually leftist, but it just seemed that way to them, since e.g. Hexbear makes no distinction b/c facts and reality, only what works inside their echo chambers that are then exported everywhere else they - and their alts - are allowed to go. But please feel free to visit that subreddit and verify all of this for yourself.

Here is some additional evidence: (1) at https://mander.xyz/c/science, the top-most link points to a lemmy.ml community. Is lemmy.ml known at all for its stance on “facts” vs. “alternative facts”, and in particular which facts are allowed to be shared or not? This is a choice by mander.xyz to feature that particular link though. (2) look at https://join-lemmy.org/, and pay close attention to the very first image on the screen. “Landlord Love”, “Tankie…” - yes this is a screenshot from lemmy.ml. Does that instance make people in the Western world feel comfortable when they visit it - especially mainstream normies… or even scientists, who often trend toward liberal but even more aim to stay out of politics altogether, in order to more closely focus on science? The words on that page also are things like “mod tools” and “host your own server”, not things like “a place to discuss topics of interest”. That site helps people who want to become admins more than those who want to become a casual user - i.e. an early-adopter, Linux-using, config-file-editing crowd, not a bench scientist grad student who just wants to chat about science.

This is the part where you say “but mander.xyz does not itself espouse tankie beliefs and philosophy - I mean yes in truth it actually does promote that e.g. by putting in those links, but it does not PROMOTE promote that, not REALLY!? ~(not~ ~directly~ ~at~ ~least)~” In which case bam, now you understand why scientists continue to use X rather than spend time learning how to make use of Mastodon. Everyone does what is easiest and they feel is best for them. We do not really reach out to make them feel welcomed, so they find it easier to simply stay where they already are.

If only Mastodon would spend time making the platform more usable, perhaps they would. e.g. the impersonation issue, which is much less of a problem on a non-federated platform, plus Bluesky takes a highly aggressive stance against it.

Also the enormous discoverability issue on Mastodon has lead people to say that “Mastodon seemed to actively discourage discoverability.” This article seems very worth reading btw, as many of the same issues plague the Threadiverse as well - hostility to non-technical normies, hostility towards anyone less ideologically pure than oneself, hostility towards… wait, am I sensing a pattern here!?!:-P Early adoptors (who are proficient in using Arch Linux btw) are quite a very different crowd and while yes scientists are smart, they are also smart enough to realize that moving from a place where their work can be seen to a place where it will not be is not a very productive endeavor, in the short-term, for themselves.

Edit: also, when the tools go for years and years and years and years without ever getting any better at solving the issues that matter most to them, it sends a signal that they aren’t welcomed. I will state that again, unequivocally: mainstream normies are not really welcomed onto the Fediverse. … … … am I wrong there? Do we welcome them even here, on the Threadiverse, or are there a myriad of rules that are nowhere written down, must be discovered by each new person, all the while people talk down to them, criticize and even laugh at them, plus also laugh at them behind their backs when they go back to Reddit and share their experiences here, warning others not to come? From what I read at r/RedditAlternatives, this usually is b/c of facing “leftist” toxicity, which I put in quotes b/c it’s not actually leftist, but it just seemed that way to them, since e.g. Hexbear makes no distinction b/c facts and reality, only what works inside their echo chambers that are then exported everywhere else they - and their alts - are allowed to go. But please feel free to visit that subreddit and verify all of this for yourself.

Here is some additional evidence: (1) at https://mander.xyz/c/science, the top-most link points to a lemmy.ml community. Is lemmy.ml known at all for its stance on “facts” vs. “alternative facts”, and in particular which facts are allowed to be shared or not? This is a choice by mander.xyz to feature that particular link though. (2) look at https://join-lemmy.org/, and pay close attention to the very first image on the screen. “Landlord Love”, “Tankie…” - yes this is a screenshot from lemmy.ml. Does that instance make people in the Western world feel comfortable when they visit it - especially mainstream normies… or even scientists, who often trend toward liberal but even more aim to stay out of politics altogether, in order to more closely focus on science? The words on that page also are things like “mod tools” and “host your own server”, not things like “a place to discuss topics of interest”. That site helps people who want to become admins more than those who want to become a casual user - i.e. an early-adopter, Linux-using, config-file-editing crowd, not a bench scientist grad student who just wants to chat about science.

This is the part where you say “but mander.xyz does not itself espouse tankie beliefs and philosophy - I mean yes in truth it actually does promote that e.g. by putting in those links, but it does not PROMOTE promote that, not REALLY!? ~(not~ ~directly~ ~at~ ~least)~” In which case bam, now you understand why scientists continue to use X rather than spend time learning how to make use of Mastodon. Everyone does what is easiest and they feel is best for them. We do not really reach out to make them feel welcomed, so they find it easier to simply stay where they already are.

The only reason mastodon isn’t as popular as bluesky is because famous people got told to go there and not on mastodon.

Does that instance make people in the Western world feel comfortable when they visit it - especially mainstream normies… or even scientists

The ceo of twitter is a pedophile who advertise for political parties on a daily basis. The average normie use whatever platform is popular and it’s not mastodon because nobody is being paid or told to use it.

Celebrities are told by some people to go to Mastodon though? Perhaps they think that Bluesky being a more centralized server will not be prey to the issue of impersonation as Mastodon is? I do also think that the call to go to Bluesky is being received better. If you read articles espousing that call they are like “come check it out, it’s so fantastic!” whereas the calls to Mastodon were like the calls to vote for the not-Right party in the USA each time that Donald Trump ran: "hey, Mastodon sucks, and let me list all the reasons why, but here’s why you need to eat your vegetables even though you don’t want to: X is so much worse (except it feels so good but… we really should do the moral choice, I/we don’t want to but we should…).

People basically laid down the line saying: fix this handful of things and then I will join (perhaps that has just 2 items on it - the impersonation and discoverability issues - or perhaps there is more). But then Mastodon ignored that demand, and now here people are saying “can’t you see what a nice man we are?” as if consent does/should not matter but it does! If we really want people to use Mastodon, teach yourself Ruby on Rails and Typescript/JavaScript and get busy making the implementation better to use - it’s the only way, or else people are just going to use what (they think) already works: Bluesky.

Ask yourself why people all flock to the same platform. The network effect is real yo, and not to be brushed aside lightly.

We need a “Lemmy for normies” instance that doesn’t federate with any of the weird instances

Governments spend billions on propaganda, world politicians use twitter because there are agreements and the platform is trusted.

Stop saying that mastodon suck, it doesn’t and it’s much better than twitter or bluesky.

Ask yourself why people all flock to the same platform.

Because someone they know or they are following use that platform.

Ikr? However that is not politically expedient hence major pushback exists to even do much as diagnose that issue much less deal with it. Even so, I (successfully) petitioned Discuss.Online to defederate from Hexbear.net, although in that I also asked for this instance to be removed from lemmy.ml as well, but that portion was rejected. Lemmy.ml is STRONGLY anti-Western, so whether its philosophies are correct or wrong (they are wrong imho:-P) either way it is a barrier for specially Western people who check us out and then nope out back to Reddit.

Even after that partial success though I basically gave up that idea since Lemmy does not allow for true blocking of all users on an instance, so nowadays use PieFed (which does offer that ability, as well as SO MANY other additional features) 99% of the time and only occasionally check my old Discuss.Online Lemmy alt. So at this point I’ve lost any hope whatsoever for “Lemmy” to become mainstream, but if there is even a sliver of hope left for that then I am putting it all in on PieFed rather than Lemmy. Perhaps I am wrong but I doubt it.

But it too moves slowly to catch up to being something that mainstream normies will want to use. I am making codeberg requests to try to help it along, even if I cannot contribute code directly. I understand the position of a mainstream person though: we here are fairly (and sometimes even extremely) toxic, especially to newcomers, and all the more so if they are non-techical. It would require much more extensive moderation to kick out people being mean to newcomers, which actually PieFed offers some great tools for that, and yet at the same time a level of traffic that makes coming to the Threadiverse worthwhile. Those two goals seem incompatible though, so realistically I don’t expect it will ever happen. Still we have to try!?

Clearly it was suitable for their purposes at one time?

You are, intentionally or otherwise, distorting what I said. Who cares about “me” - yes I stopped recommending Fediverse tools bc it’s useless to do so especially when the developers themselves don’t even seem to care about making it a good platform to use for others besides themselves, meh it’s their code and their right to do whatever they wish - but anyway I’m just one person.

What I said though was that journalists are writing articles saying how much Mastodon sucks. That could have been listened and responded to, but instead the concept was attempted to be buried, and the position of the person offering such rejected - exactly as you are doing here to me now btw, as if consent of the governed should not matter somehow, and they all just need to suck it up, get with the program, and use the same platform regardless of what it personally costs them? That btw is also the identical position of X as well.

I even included a link to one example of such an article. There are MANY others.

I hope you choose to be curious, rather than think that you already have the answer. There is so much more that I think that you are missing here. We seem to not have the same goal at all if I would like to entice people to use the platform but you would rather tell people that they “must” - that approach will not work out well in the end, imho, and you do not get to decide what is “better” in the minds of other people. If others likewise display it, that kind of hubris will continue to leave Mastodon in the forgotten bin of history. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Here’s a thought: no microblogging platform is suitable for professional use. Cut it out, stop it.

We need a “Lemmy for normies” instance that doesn’t federate with any of the weird instances