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  3. Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

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  • kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

    The question is, is it a monopoly because they are doing something to force their way into that position, or does every other offering just suck?

    And what is the solution to said monopoly? Because as far as I can tell, the only way to give the other shitty stores a chance is to deliberately make the steam experience worse.

    There’s also the question of if this is even a real problem. For instance, if two people are trying to sell lemonade on their street, and one is just throwing a lukewarm cup of haphazardly crushed lemons at you for $2, and the other is charging $3 but giving you a cool glass of carefully squeezed lemons… the second one may have a monopoly, but that’s because the first isn’t competent. Should the second be punished in some way because of that?

    NeshuraN This user is from outside of this forum
    NeshuraN This user is from outside of this forum
    Neshura
    wrote last edited by
    #17

    There should be case studies about the ineptitude of competing stores. A small handful aside who have found a niche and serve it well (itch.io and GOG come to mind) the other stores just dish out a store front that is under-cooked for what is there and lacking features beyond that and then are surprised when people prefer Steam.

    For example I’m not aware of a Workshop style system in any other store, so any game that features community made content will be a better experience on Steam.

    1 Reply Last reply
    9
    • fizz@lemmy.nzF fizz@lemmy.nz

      Is discovery a dumpster fire? I mean sure it could be better but I dont think its a dumpster fire. It seems there are constantly new small team indie games doing wild numbers on the platform. If discovery was truely bad we would be seeing the charts dominated by big studios.

      D This user is from outside of this forum
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      deconceptualist@leminal.space
      wrote last edited by
      #18

      The regular Next Fests have probably been the single best thing for game discovery I’ve found in s long time. Nothing beats an actual hands-on demo for deciding if I’ll wishlist a game.

      1 Reply Last reply
      48
      • yakko@feddit.ukY This user is from outside of this forum
        yakko@feddit.ukY This user is from outside of this forum
        yakko@feddit.uk
        wrote last edited by
        #19

        Private equity buyout would be the same problem but even faster.

        1 Reply Last reply
        31
        • T tommysoda@lemmy.world

          I feel like they’ve earned it because they’ve put in the most work. They are the best in the game because they make the user experience the best there is. EA, Ubisoft, and Microsoft have/had their own storefronts or launchers but they are clunky and unpleasant to deal with and the only benefits they had were exclusives. They’ve never put any effort into user experience and were mainly doing it to make themselves more money and it definitely showed. The only one that’s ever been a real competitor is Epic Launcher. And while it has gotten better over the years, the user experience is still not anywhere near Steam. And even now the Epic Launcher is still unpleasant to deal with in a lot of cases unless you just use it to play Fortnite.

          With Steam everything just works and is basically seamless. Not only that, before Steam the modding community for most games had an immense learning curve and most people just avoided it save for Minecraft. And as far as I can tell you can’t even mod games you buy on the Microsoft Store because their file structure is atrocious.

          The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

          L This user is from outside of this forum
          L This user is from outside of this forum
          leave_it_blank@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #20

          Offline installers are the reason I only use my money on gog. I like to have control over the things I own, though it’s getting harder and harder these days. But where it’s still possible I use it, and gog is the only storefront that offers this service (which beats every other service I could think of).

          1 Reply Last reply
          11
          • kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.comK kairubyte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

            The question is, is it a monopoly because they are doing something to force their way into that position, or does every other offering just suck?

            And what is the solution to said monopoly? Because as far as I can tell, the only way to give the other shitty stores a chance is to deliberately make the steam experience worse.

            There’s also the question of if this is even a real problem. For instance, if two people are trying to sell lemonade on their street, and one is just throwing a lukewarm cup of haphazardly crushed lemons at you for $2, and the other is charging $3 but giving you a cool glass of carefully squeezed lemons… the second one may have a monopoly, but that’s because the first isn’t competent. Should the second be punished in some way because of that?

            M This user is from outside of this forum
            M This user is from outside of this forum
            mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
            wrote last edited by mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
            #21

            Saying it’s a monopoly doesn’t mean it needs solving. Anti-competitive behavior is a problem - but being a monopoly doesn’t require that abuse, and you don’t need a monopoly to exercise that abuse.

            Yet people get deeply fricking weird about saying it’s a monopoly.

            It’s naked taboo. It’s people feeling icky about a word, and actively refusing to engage in rational argument about meaning. When someone has dogmatically internalized that monopoly=bad and Steam=good, the text doesn’t matter. Even pointing out things they just said gets dismissed as some kind of attack against The Good Store.™

            We have to start from plain acknowledgement that Steam’s competitors do not matter. They are plentiful and irrelevant. Explaining why they are doesn’t change that they are.

            1 Reply Last reply
            12
            • P psionicsickness@reddthat.com

              And it will last til Gabe dies. Then I guarantee it enshittifes so fast it will make your head spin.

              M This user is from outside of this forum
              M This user is from outside of this forum
              minorkeys@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #22

              As soon as the business people gain control they will pivot everything to maximize profit. Enshitification is just a euphemism for business.

              1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                This post did not contain any content.
                Link Preview Image
                Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                favicon

                Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                M This user is from outside of this forum
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                mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
                wrote last edited by
                #23

                While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam’s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                These assertions do not contradict. I cannot overstress that.

                This whole article is ‘Valve’s monopoly is fine because they did things right.’

                Having one good store is not, in itself, a problem. But it does mean we’re one fuckup away from having no good stores.

                N 1 Reply Last reply
                18
                • cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.worksC cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works

                  Larian isn’t wrong, Steam mostly works. Stable client, refunds, workshop, Proton, massive userbase and tools that actually help developers and players. A lot of other stores still feel half-baked next to that.

                  But deserved != harmless. Valve has way too much power, discovery is a dumpster fire, and their communication and policy decisions can be arbitrary. Dominance like that rewards sloppiness and makes it harder for better alternatives to gain traction.

                  So yeah, Steam earned its place, but I do not want any one company owning PC gaming. Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                  Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                  Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                  Tywèle [she|her]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #24

                  Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                  Then the competition should put in the work.

                  S H S 3 Replies Last reply
                  38
                  • D dukemirage@lemmy.world

                    The only storefront I wish was better/more popular was GOG. It’s not bad and has a lot of benefits (Like no DRM and offline installers), but Steam just makes everything so easy it’s hard not to get stuck with them once you’ve started.

                    Well the no DRM/offline installer part is the most important part. I buy a game, I download and install it. If I need more features I may be better off with Steam anyway.

                    Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                    Tywèle [she|her]T This user is from outside of this forum
                    Tywèle [she|her]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #25

                    As far as I know the Steam DRM is not mandatory to use for developers.

                    D 1 Reply Last reply
                    4
                    • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                      This post did not contain any content.
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                      Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                      While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                      favicon

                      Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                      D This user is from outside of this forum
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                      D06M4
                      wrote last edited by
                      #26

                      I only buy games on Steam, GOG and ItchIO. The main reason I don’t give a cent to stores from EA, Ubisoft or Epic Games anymore is their services and terms are horrible. I’m all in for supporting competition when it’s good competition.

                      R thingsiplay@beehaw.orgT S JackbyDevJ 4 Replies Last reply
                      94
                      • ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                        ook@discuss.tchncs.deO This user is from outside of this forum
                        ook@discuss.tchncs.de
                        wrote last edited by
                        #27

                        Well yeah, that will be the potential first sign to look out for. If that happens no need to think it won’t get worse like everything else.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • Tywèle [she|her]T Tywèle [she|her]

                          As far as I know the Steam DRM is not mandatory to use for developers.

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                          dukemirage@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #28

                          Yes, I still need to go through Steam for every install.

                          A 1 Reply Last reply
                          4
                          • alessandro@lemmy.caA alessandro@lemmy.ca
                            This post did not contain any content.
                            Link Preview Image
                            Larian Studios defends Valve: Steam's success is deserved

                            While many accuse Valve of monopolising the PC gaming market, others argue that Steam\'s dominance is simply the result of doing things right.

                            favicon

                            Gamereactor UK (www.gamereactor.eu)

                            exuE This user is from outside of this forum
                            exuE This user is from outside of this forum
                            exu
                            wrote last edited by
                            #29

                            Devs are still free to sell their game outside of Steam and charge whatever price they want for that version

                            P N M 3 Replies Last reply
                            19
                            • D D06M4

                              I only buy games on Steam, GOG and ItchIO. The main reason I don’t give a cent to stores from EA, Ubisoft or Epic Games anymore is their services and terms are horrible. I’m all in for supporting competition when it’s good competition.

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                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              rustysharp@programming.dev
                              wrote last edited by
                              #30

                              stores from EA, Ubisoft or Epic

                              Better yet, games

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              7
                              • exuE exu

                                Devs are still free to sell their game outside of Steam and charge whatever price they want for that version

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                                P This user is from outside of this forum
                                phineaz@feddit.org
                                wrote last edited by
                                #31

                                I think you’re not allowed to “sell” it for free with the same version and features. Which should be unsurprising.

                                exuE gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zoneG 2 Replies Last reply
                                2
                                • exuE exu

                                  Devs are still free to sell their game outside of Steam and charge whatever price they want for that version

                                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                                  N This user is from outside of this forum
                                  njm1314@lemmy.world
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #32

                                  Not and keep their listing in Steam they can’t.

                                  exuE 1 Reply Last reply
                                  1
                                  • P psionicsickness@reddthat.com

                                    And it will last til Gabe dies. Then I guarantee it enshittifes so fast it will make your head spin.

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    skunkworkz@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #33

                                    He should turn it into a non-profit right before he dies and put the ip under a foundation or something so it can’t be sold off in pieces.

                                    D dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.comD 2 Replies Last reply
                                    10
                                    • fizz@lemmy.nzF fizz@lemmy.nz

                                      Is discovery a dumpster fire? I mean sure it could be better but I dont think its a dumpster fire. It seems there are constantly new small team indie games doing wild numbers on the platform. If discovery was truely bad we would be seeing the charts dominated by big studios.

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                                      stephen01king
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #34

                                      I guess he talking about the search system, which is a dumpster fire relative to other Steam features.

                                      F 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • Tywèle [she|her]T Tywèle [she|her]

                                        Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                                        Then the competition should put in the work.

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        stephen01king
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #35

                                        That’s kinda his point.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        10
                                        • cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.worksC cosmicpancake@sh.itjust.works

                                          Larian isn’t wrong, Steam mostly works. Stable client, refunds, workshop, Proton, massive userbase and tools that actually help developers and players. A lot of other stores still feel half-baked next to that.

                                          But deserved != harmless. Valve has way too much power, discovery is a dumpster fire, and their communication and policy decisions can be arbitrary. Dominance like that rewards sloppiness and makes it harder for better alternatives to gain traction.

                                          So yeah, Steam earned its place, but I do not want any one company owning PC gaming. Competition keeps them honest, and right now we need more real contenders, not just storefronts throwing money at exclusives.

                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          brrt@sh.itjust.works
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #36

                                          Agreed. I’d add the predatory lootbox/gambling in stuff like counterstrike.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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