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Wandering Adventure Party

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  3. DMs are players too

DMs are players too

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  • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    archpawn@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #12

    Or you could have the players find their journal with the plans written down after killing them.

    1 Reply Last reply
    3
    • libertylizard@slrpnk.netL libertylizard@slrpnk.net

      lol this happened in a campaign I was running. I foolishly thought the villain should reveal details of his evil plan across rounds of combat. And also that it would be cool to have the battle on the backs of giant rocs.

      You can probably see where this is going but let’s just say the battle lasted about 2 rounds.

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      archpawn@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #13

      That’s how they did it in Watchmen, except the writer was in control of how long the battle lasted.

      libertylizard@slrpnk.netL 1 Reply Last reply
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      • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        cenotaph@mander.xyz
        wrote last edited by
        #14

        If your BBEG doesn’t have at least one counterspell (or someone who does on their team) your casters are always gonna go in guns blazing lol

        E 1 Reply Last reply
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        • G IndescribablySad@threads.net

          Disintegrate is a terrible opener. It’s save or suck, meaning that they will expend a legendary resistance, at best. Polymorph effectively does the same thing, but better in every way. The bbeg would resist the spell and simply continue monologuing

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          breakerswitch@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #15

          What? Polymorph might disable the target, but if its a single target boss fight, what does that help? Whether you kill the transformation or wait for the spell to time out, the result is the same

          edgemaster72@lemmy.worldE G 2 Replies Last reply
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          • A archpawn@lemmy.world

            That’s how they did it in Watchmen, except the writer was in control of how long the battle lasted.

            libertylizard@slrpnk.netL This user is from outside of this forum
            libertylizard@slrpnk.netL This user is from outside of this forum
            libertylizard@slrpnk.net
            wrote last edited by
            #16

            Yeah I think that can be a trap a lot of newer DMs can fall into, not understanding the difference between mediums like TV, movies, or books and the collective nature of D&D stories. Really extended sequences that require things to go a certain way are risky in D&D because you never know what the players will do!

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            • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              wrote last edited by wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              #17

              I would caution players to think of the logical endpoint of zealously interrupting villians with combat.

              Players: “Stop you thugs or face the wrath of-”

              DM: “They attack you, sounds like they get a surprise round”

              bytejunk@lemmy.worldB 1 Reply Last reply
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              • B breakerswitch@lemmy.world

                What? Polymorph might disable the target, but if its a single target boss fight, what does that help? Whether you kill the transformation or wait for the spell to time out, the result is the same

                edgemaster72@lemmy.worldE This user is from outside of this forum
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                edgemaster72@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #18

                I guess their assumption is anything cast right away will have Legendary Resistance used if the save is failed and the spell is sufficiently debilitating, so better to use Polymorph since it’s lower level but strong enough to warrant using LR.

                Ricky RigatoniR 1 Reply Last reply
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                • edgemaster72@lemmy.worldE edgemaster72@lemmy.world

                  I guess their assumption is anything cast right away will have Legendary Resistance used if the save is failed and the spell is sufficiently debilitating, so better to use Polymorph since it’s lower level but strong enough to warrant using LR.

                  Ricky RigatoniR This user is from outside of this forum
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                  Ricky Rigatoni
                  wrote last edited by
                  #19

                  Also if for whatever reason it does succeed, turning the bbeg into a chicken right as they begin monologuing is infinitely funnier than just disintigrating them.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • B breakerswitch@lemmy.world

                    What? Polymorph might disable the target, but if its a single target boss fight, what does that help? Whether you kill the transformation or wait for the spell to time out, the result is the same

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                    IndescribablySad@threads.net
                    wrote last edited by gullible@sh.itjust.works
                    #20

                    Disintegrate does x damage. You know what does more than x damage? 3 other characters holding their attack and spell actions after you bap the lizard sitting in a cage, after killing all of their henchmen. But they’ll resist it anyway, so it’s effectively less magic spent for the same result

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                    • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                      crozekiel@lemmy.zip
                      wrote last edited by
                      #21

                      I feel like you gotta know the party a little bit… If they aren’t the type to talk their way out of a problem, then the monologue has to happen from some relative safety instead of within arms reach of the not-paralyzed barbarian. Hold person exists. Magic Mouth. Message. Hell, a big ol’ balcony above the party.

                      Else you gotta have a back-up plan like fallout where the players get the information from a journal or something - maybe it isn’t as clearly laid out and it’s harder to follow the breadcrumbs but the party isn’t just lost in the wind looking for the next guy to punch.

                      glitchydigibun@lemmy.worldG M S L P 5 Replies Last reply
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                      • C crozekiel@lemmy.zip

                        I feel like you gotta know the party a little bit… If they aren’t the type to talk their way out of a problem, then the monologue has to happen from some relative safety instead of within arms reach of the not-paralyzed barbarian. Hold person exists. Magic Mouth. Message. Hell, a big ol’ balcony above the party.

                        Else you gotta have a back-up plan like fallout where the players get the information from a journal or something - maybe it isn’t as clearly laid out and it’s harder to follow the breadcrumbs but the party isn’t just lost in the wind looking for the next guy to punch.

                        glitchydigibun@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
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                        glitchydigibun@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #22

                        Monologue through a stone of farspeech or a ward-tripped illusion spell. Hell, have the villain’s illusion disintegrate only for it to trip 18 other wards that all seamlessly continue the monologue in a deafening cacophany of voices, like the BBEG knows alllll the tricks. I feel like a good DM can get creative on the spot, even if it trips them up a bit.

                        P 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • W wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                          I would caution players to think of the logical endpoint of zealously interrupting villians with combat.

                          Players: “Stop you thugs or face the wrath of-”

                          DM: “They attack you, sounds like they get a surprise round”

                          bytejunk@lemmy.worldB This user is from outside of this forum
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                          bytejunk@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #23

                          That sounds unreasonable. If you’re stepping up to known thugs to threaten them with violence, violence is expected by the party. There should be no surprise here.

                          V 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • C crozekiel@lemmy.zip

                            I feel like you gotta know the party a little bit… If they aren’t the type to talk their way out of a problem, then the monologue has to happen from some relative safety instead of within arms reach of the not-paralyzed barbarian. Hold person exists. Magic Mouth. Message. Hell, a big ol’ balcony above the party.

                            Else you gotta have a back-up plan like fallout where the players get the information from a journal or something - maybe it isn’t as clearly laid out and it’s harder to follow the breadcrumbs but the party isn’t just lost in the wind looking for the next guy to punch.

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                            mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                            wrote last edited by
                            #24

                            but the party isn’t just lost in the wind looking for the next guy to punch.

                            Eh, there is merit in letting them suffer the consequences of their actions

                            C 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • G IndescribablySad@threads.net

                              Disintegrate is a terrible opener. It’s save or suck, meaning that they will expend a legendary resistance, at best. Polymorph effectively does the same thing, but better in every way. The bbeg would resist the spell and simply continue monologuing

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                              mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote last edited by
                              #25

                              This is entirely based on the assumption that they’re playing 5E. I don’t think any other game has legendary resistances

                              G 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • C cenotaph@mander.xyz

                                If your BBEG doesn’t have at least one counterspell (or someone who does on their team) your casters are always gonna go in guns blazing lol

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                                excral@feddit.org
                                wrote last edited by
                                #26

                                No, counter spells are strictly reserved for revivify

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                                • bytejunk@lemmy.worldB bytejunk@lemmy.world

                                  That sounds unreasonable. If you’re stepping up to known thugs to threaten them with violence, violence is expected by the party. There should be no surprise here.

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                                  vithigar@lemmy.ca
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #27

                                  By the rules of the game you can’t surprise someone who is aware of your presence, so you’re correct.

                                  That also means you don’t automatically get to interrupt a monologue by blasting the bbeg in the face mid-sentence. You need to roll initiative to see if you are able to act before they can respond.

                                  bytejunk@lemmy.worldB 1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • V vithigar@lemmy.ca

                                    By the rules of the game you can’t surprise someone who is aware of your presence, so you’re correct.

                                    That also means you don’t automatically get to interrupt a monologue by blasting the bbeg in the face mid-sentence. You need to roll initiative to see if you are able to act before they can respond.

                                    bytejunk@lemmy.worldB This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    bytejunk@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by bytejunk@lemmy.world
                                    #28

                                    I like this. I mean, the fact that the rules assist the narrative, but they’re not the narrative themselves.

                                    For the desintegrate situation, I’d love for the GM to go something like:

                                    “As you speak the final words of your incantation, Wizard, a thin green ray begins to form on your fingertip. The villain merely smirks, clicking his fingers. A wave of crimson energy smothers your hand, and your spell snuffs out like a candle. He brushes a piece of dust from his shoulder. 'Impatience. Such a childish trait. As I was saying…'”

                                    The GM wouldn’t even explain what happened, just continue his narrative, and at some point the party would find that one of the nearby minions in hiding had a counterspell ready, for example.

                                    V axolotl_cpp@feddit.itA 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • M mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works

                                      This is entirely based on the assumption that they’re playing 5E. I don’t think any other game has legendary resistances

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                                      IndescribablySad@threads.net
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #29

                                      Yeah, I did assume 5e. Still holds true, depending on your teammates in 3.5 and pathfinder, but you right

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                                      1
                                      • bytejunk@lemmy.worldB bytejunk@lemmy.world

                                        I like this. I mean, the fact that the rules assist the narrative, but they’re not the narrative themselves.

                                        For the desintegrate situation, I’d love for the GM to go something like:

                                        “As you speak the final words of your incantation, Wizard, a thin green ray begins to form on your fingertip. The villain merely smirks, clicking his fingers. A wave of crimson energy smothers your hand, and your spell snuffs out like a candle. He brushes a piece of dust from his shoulder. 'Impatience. Such a childish trait. As I was saying…'”

                                        The GM wouldn’t even explain what happened, just continue his narrative, and at some point the party would find that one of the nearby minions in hiding had a counterspell ready, for example.

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                                        vithigar@lemmy.ca
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #30

                                        Yeah, absolutely. There are plenty of RAW ways to allow a bbeg to monologue, at least to some degree.

                                        Of course it’s also entirely within the GM’s power to just tell the players to let it happen, but it definitely feels better when there’s some kind of in game reason why.

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                                        • C crozekiel@lemmy.zip

                                          I feel like you gotta know the party a little bit… If they aren’t the type to talk their way out of a problem, then the monologue has to happen from some relative safety instead of within arms reach of the not-paralyzed barbarian. Hold person exists. Magic Mouth. Message. Hell, a big ol’ balcony above the party.

                                          Else you gotta have a back-up plan like fallout where the players get the information from a journal or something - maybe it isn’t as clearly laid out and it’s harder to follow the breadcrumbs but the party isn’t just lost in the wind looking for the next guy to punch.

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                                          squaresinger@lemmy.world
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #31

                                          In a campaign I ran, I had the party wake up in the bilge of a ship, tied up after being drugged. They all had a fresh, moonshaped tattoo in their neck.

                                          I planned to have some guards talk with eachother nearby, giving them some exposition how they got there, and then the ship would bring them to a harbour where they’d be unloaded and brought into a colosseum where they would become gladiators and the rest of the story would happen there.

                                          Instead they used magic and lockpicking to get rid of their chains and killed the guards before they could say anything. The orc of the group then proceded to punch a hole into the outside wall of the ship, causing all the remaining guards to abandon the ship on the lifeboats. They then managed to beach the ship on the nearby shore.

                                          As a “punishment” I kept dangling the importance of these tattoos over them all the time, without ever telling them what they mean.

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