There is a scene in "The Algebraist" (2004, Ian M. Banks) the leader of the invading space army (who is ruthless and petty) makes a demand for information of the gas giant aliens known as "the dwellers."
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@marick @futurebird That’s a possibility, but it makes the Culture much less attractive.
@michaelgemar It's pretty clear Banks wasn't writing a utopia. @marick @futurebird
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@michaelgemar It's pretty clear Banks wasn't writing a utopia. @marick @futurebird
@Flux @marick @futurebird Whatever his intent, a post-scarcity socialist society where everyone can pretty much do whatever they want sounds pretty utopian to me.
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@Flux @marick @futurebird Whatever his intent, a post-scarcity socialist society where everyone can pretty much do whatever they want sounds pretty utopian to me.
@michaelgemar It's wrapped in a wee load of Omelas. @marick @futurebird
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@michaelgemar It's wrapped in a wee load of Omelas. @marick @futurebird
@michaelgemar Or less obliquely "what is a special circumstance?" @marick @futurebird
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@futurebird In a recent story of mine, “Death and the Gorgon”, a sheriff’s deputy bonds a little too strongly with his very much non-sentient AI tool and it ... does not go well.
For a moment reading that, I thought that it might have gone a lot worse than it actually did.
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That inability to simply be alone is very real and very human. When you talk to a chatbot you are talking to a rubber duck, a volleyball, yourself.
But it isn't a self help exercise. It is a prescribed job requirement. It is a solution looking for a problem.
The "AI" SF story would not have amazing thinking computers who scare people who don't want to recognize they are human. It would have wooden dolls and people that get mad at you if you don't say "hello" and play along.
@futurebird this is an interesting and thought provoking point. It occurred to me that the devil's advocate argument here is that if what we desire as humans is an answer to loneliness, then at what point does it matter if we get the chemical endorphins to the brain where it came from real or simulated companionship? We do this with so many other things in the world - from pharma, to simulated meat, to video games and movies...
The future I gonna be weird.
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More interesting to me on this re-read were the bits of the book about artificial intelligences. I don't think many SF writers have hit the mark on the real issues that AI might raise. But it's understandable. Writers care about characters so they want AI to be a character, and they want to wrestle with questions of humanity and discrimination. All very interesting.
Not relevant to the thing that is being called AI right now.
@futurebird
> Writers care about characters so they want AI to be a character, and they want to wrestle with questions of humanity and discriminationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fire_Upon_the_Deep gas artificial (super)intelligence that's not a character.
Ironically that's a book many current AI boosters were inspired by (as in "yay, we're finally building the Torment Nexus as described in a book 'Don't Build the Torment Nexus'"), except that of course it too is irrelevant to the thing that is being called "AI" right now.
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Just finished that last week as an audiobook and posted the quote where Fassim first discovers that the twin Dweller is an AI and is terrified by being in a confined space with it. On the one hand, it's a lesson in breaking stereotypes. On the other, I'm not sure I believe the AI's claim that they were set up and were actually victims. It's a complex story and I may have missed it, but I don't recall a whole lot of reason to believe them.
It was definitely a departure from his Culture worlds where AIs are almost universally seen as benevolent. I find myself amused by the fact that I can suspend disbelief for faster than light travel and continent-sized orbiting space habitats, but have a much harder time believing in some future, super intelligent yet benevolent AI
️@Mikal @futurebird
Maybe the Minds are benevolent, maybe they keep colonies of humans the way humans keep colonies of ants
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There is a scene in "The Algebraist" (2004, Ian M. Banks) the leader of the invading space army (who is ruthless and petty) makes a demand for information of the gas giant aliens known as "the dwellers."
He proceeds to shoot living people, (just random ordinary people) out of his ship's gun like bullets to suffocate in space.
A decade ago I thought this was a little silly and over the top. "Come on Mr. Banks, I understand you want to lampoon warmongers, but this is too much."
I get it now.
@futurebird Iain was ahead of his time in terms of political consciousness. Alas.
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There is a scene in "The Algebraist" (2004, Ian M. Banks) the leader of the invading space army (who is ruthless and petty) makes a demand for information of the gas giant aliens known as "the dwellers."
He proceeds to shoot living people, (just random ordinary people) out of his ship's gun like bullets to suffocate in space.
A decade ago I thought this was a little silly and over the top. "Come on Mr. Banks, I understand you want to lampoon warmongers, but this is too much."
I get it now.
@futurebird Wild how Russia combined all that and repeatedly sent their troops down gas pipelines where they suffocated.
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@futurebird @tshirtman that's Oz, right? You're talking about Oz. And so in Searle's story, there *is* no man behind the curtain. The wizard isn't a charlatan, instead he doesn't actually exist! We're just talking to a great head that echoes what other people have told it. We hear echoes that sound like answers. If people say that there is no wizard, we laugh it off or indeed get angry, refuse to look. Even if we agree there isn't any wizard, we may still say "the wizard told me"...
@futurebird @tshirtman it was very late at night here when I wrote this. In the light of day I see it owes a lot to https://bsky.app/profile/joles.bsky.social/post/3logjuqggkk2q
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There is a scene in "The Algebraist" (2004, Ian M. Banks) the leader of the invading space army (who is ruthless and petty) makes a demand for information of the gas giant aliens known as "the dwellers."
He proceeds to shoot living people, (just random ordinary people) out of his ship's gun like bullets to suffocate in space.
A decade ago I thought this was a little silly and over the top. "Come on Mr. Banks, I understand you want to lampoon warmongers, but this is too much."
I get it now.
@futurebird and the Dwellers win that one by not caring. "Oh dear, we hope you do not run out of people". I don't know if there is moral in it, I hope not.
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