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  3. To the #VoteBlue people in the USA: Yes, voting for the #Democrats _is_ necessary in all upcoming elections.

To the #VoteBlue people in the USA: Yes, voting for the #Democrats _is_ necessary in all upcoming elections.

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votebluedemocrats
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  • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

    To the #VoteBlue people in the USA: Yes, voting for the #Democrats _is_ necessary in all upcoming elections. But you also need to realize that the anger at the Democratic Party establishment is both real and entirely justified, and you should understand where that anger is coming from.

    To quote the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail":

    'First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”'

    Letter from Birmingham Jail, by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter to 8 white church leaders, written from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

    favicon

    (letterfromjail.com)

    Michael RichardsonM This user is from outside of this forum
    Michael RichardsonM This user is from outside of this forum
    Michael Richardson
    wrote last edited by
    #4

    @juergen_hubert voting blue uncritically is why the USA is here. Lack of useful third parties. Lack or PR. USA citizens need to revise we the constitution... Somehow. In Canada, our "Liberals" have moved seriously to the right.under the guise of being unified against Trump. I am very scared under Carney.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Jürgen HubertJ Jürgen Hubert

      To the #VoteBlue people in the USA: Yes, voting for the #Democrats _is_ necessary in all upcoming elections. But you also need to realize that the anger at the Democratic Party establishment is both real and entirely justified, and you should understand where that anger is coming from.

      To quote the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail":

      'First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”'

      Letter from Birmingham Jail, by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

      Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter to 8 white church leaders, written from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

      favicon

      (letterfromjail.com)

      Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
      Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
      Ben Royce 🇺🇦
      wrote last edited by
      #5

      @juergen_hubert

      a focus on the dem estbmnt is a red herring

      of course they suck

      #mamdani showed us just show up and #vote for who we like. he got no support from the estbmnt, even hostility. now he's mayor

      because we voted!

      the dem estbmnt is not going to change. does it matter? why should we care?

      1. ignore them

      2. vote

      *especially #primaries #primaries2026*

      3. and replace them

      et voila

      voter anger is not the fault of #democrats

      the dems being shit is the fault of people not voting

      SlightlyCyberpunkA A Jürgen HubertJ 3 Replies Last reply
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      • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

        @juergen_hubert

        a focus on the dem estbmnt is a red herring

        of course they suck

        #mamdani showed us just show up and #vote for who we like. he got no support from the estbmnt, even hostility. now he's mayor

        because we voted!

        the dem estbmnt is not going to change. does it matter? why should we care?

        1. ignore them

        2. vote

        *especially #primaries #primaries2026*

        3. and replace them

        et voila

        voter anger is not the fault of #democrats

        the dems being shit is the fault of people not voting

        SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
        SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
        SlightlyCyberpunk
        wrote last edited by
        #6

        @benroyce @juergen_hubert The problem with that strategy is that most of the people who get a vote on who is part of that establishment are chosen not by the voters but by the members of the current establishment...

        Look at how the membership is selected:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee

        Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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        • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

          @benroyce @juergen_hubert The problem with that strategy is that most of the people who get a vote on who is part of that establishment are chosen not by the voters but by the members of the current establishment...

          Look at how the membership is selected:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee

          Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
          Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
          Ben Royce 🇺🇦
          wrote last edited by
          #7

          @admin @juergen_hubert

          and how do you change that?

          you show the fuck up and vote

          a change of leadership means a change of policy

          what does not voting lead to?

          more of the same

          stop setting roadblocks in your mind before you participate

          participate, participate, participate

          that is the only way to get the change we need

          meanwhile, people just sitting things out until the democratic establishment magically changes is a fucking joke. lack of participation is *exactly* why things suck

          SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

            @admin @juergen_hubert

            and how do you change that?

            you show the fuck up and vote

            a change of leadership means a change of policy

            what does not voting lead to?

            more of the same

            stop setting roadblocks in your mind before you participate

            participate, participate, participate

            that is the only way to get the change we need

            meanwhile, people just sitting things out until the democratic establishment magically changes is a fucking joke. lack of participation is *exactly* why things suck

            SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
            SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
            SlightlyCyberpunk
            wrote last edited by
            #8

            @benroyce @juergen_hubert How? Are you saying to break into the DNC and steal the ballots or something? WE DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THIS!

            Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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            • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

              @benroyce @juergen_hubert How? Are you saying to break into the DNC and steal the ballots or something? WE DON'T GET TO VOTE ON THIS!

              Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
              Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
              Ben Royce 🇺🇦
              wrote last edited by
              #9

              @admin @juergen_hubert

              OMFG WE'RE DOOMED FOR ETERNITY WE HAVE NO AGENCY

              😂

              you vote. you replace the leadership. you change the policy

              hello?

              will you stop fucking hiding and buried in deranged fears? it's fucking weak and embarrassing. part of the reason we're here is people who think just like you. fight, motherfucker

              did you learn nothing from mamdani's run?

              and how do we get more mamdanis?

              via my words here

              meanwhile your way is defeat, because you won't fucking fight!

              SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                @admin @juergen_hubert

                OMFG WE'RE DOOMED FOR ETERNITY WE HAVE NO AGENCY

                😂

                you vote. you replace the leadership. you change the policy

                hello?

                will you stop fucking hiding and buried in deranged fears? it's fucking weak and embarrassing. part of the reason we're here is people who think just like you. fight, motherfucker

                did you learn nothing from mamdani's run?

                and how do we get more mamdanis?

                via my words here

                meanwhile your way is defeat, because you won't fucking fight!

                SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                SlightlyCyberpunk
                wrote last edited by
                #10

                @benroyce @juergen_hubert Mamdani isn't party leadership.

                Party leadership is elected by ~400 people who are chosen by party leadership. They pick their voters and they ain't picking you or me.

                Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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                • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                  @benroyce @juergen_hubert Mamdani isn't party leadership.

                  Party leadership is elected by ~400 people who are chosen by party leadership. They pick their voters and they ain't picking you or me.

                  Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                  Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                  wrote last edited by
                  #11

                  @admin @juergen_hubert

                  and who makes up party leadership deep thinker? what happens if we get 50 mamdanis? and how do we get 50 mamdanis?

                  HELLO, ANYONE HOME?

                  i'll give you some time to work through the fucking obvious and abandon your defense of cowardice

                  your way is no more mamdanis. because integalactic omnipotent alien dem establishment we are powerless to change 😂 fucking weak

                  you are the problem

                  SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                    @admin @juergen_hubert

                    and who makes up party leadership deep thinker? what happens if we get 50 mamdanis? and how do we get 50 mamdanis?

                    HELLO, ANYONE HOME?

                    i'll give you some time to work through the fucking obvious and abandon your defense of cowardice

                    your way is no more mamdanis. because integalactic omnipotent alien dem establishment we are powerless to change 😂 fucking weak

                    you are the problem

                    SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                    SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                    SlightlyCyberpunk
                    wrote last edited by
                    #12

                    @benroyce @juergen_hubert Mamdani might not get a vote for party leadership either. Read the link I sent you earlier, it lists who gets a votes. There are three mayors selected so *maybe* he could get one of those, but it's not clear who chooses which three.

                    But there's 200 people selected by the state party organizations, and 75 selected by national party leaders that aren't necessarily elected politicians at all.

                    Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                      @benroyce @juergen_hubert Mamdani might not get a vote for party leadership either. Read the link I sent you earlier, it lists who gets a votes. There are three mayors selected so *maybe* he could get one of those, but it's not clear who chooses which three.

                      But there's 200 people selected by the state party organizations, and 75 selected by national party leaders that aren't necessarily elected politicians at all.

                      Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                      Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                      wrote last edited by
                      #13

                      @admin @juergen_hubert

                      i completely understand you

                      mental roadblock, mental roadblock, mental roadblock

                      helplessness, weakness, cowardice, defeatism, pessimism, cynicism

                      i get it

                      thank you for painting a picture for everyone else reading along why the left is so FUCKED in this stupid fucking country

                      you are the problem. you and all the other spineless turds out there are the author of our misery

                      LISTEN TO ME:

                      you vote

                      in the primaries

                      you get more mamdanis

                      we win

                      capisce?

                      SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                        @admin @juergen_hubert

                        i completely understand you

                        mental roadblock, mental roadblock, mental roadblock

                        helplessness, weakness, cowardice, defeatism, pessimism, cynicism

                        i get it

                        thank you for painting a picture for everyone else reading along why the left is so FUCKED in this stupid fucking country

                        you are the problem. you and all the other spineless turds out there are the author of our misery

                        LISTEN TO ME:

                        you vote

                        in the primaries

                        you get more mamdanis

                        we win

                        capisce?

                        SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                        SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                        SlightlyCyberpunk
                        wrote last edited by
                        #14

                        @benroyce @juergen_hubert And every single election election you have to fight against the party that's supposed to be supporting you -- just like Mamdani did -- because you have no way to change the party itself!

                        If we can get these people elected as Democrats despite the Democrats fighting against us the entire way then we can certainly get them elected under a party that supports them or even just gets out of their way. AIUI Mamdani's campaign was largely run not by the Democratic party but by the fucking DSA. So maybe the DSA should form a party.

                        Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                          @benroyce @juergen_hubert And every single election election you have to fight against the party that's supposed to be supporting you -- just like Mamdani did -- because you have no way to change the party itself!

                          If we can get these people elected as Democrats despite the Democrats fighting against us the entire way then we can certainly get them elected under a party that supports them or even just gets out of their way. AIUI Mamdani's campaign was largely run not by the Democratic party but by the fucking DSA. So maybe the DSA should form a party.

                          Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                          Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                          Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                          wrote last edited by
                          #15

                          @admin @juergen_hubert

                          you have to fight against the party to take over the party, absolutely

                          then once we control it, they support us

                          HELLO

                          are you trolling? what are you doing?

                          "So maybe the DSA should form a party"

                          oh yeah, divide the left vote in an FPTP voting system to guarantee 100 years of MAGA, real smart

                          no: the DSA *takes over the democratic party*

                          what is mamdani if not the beachhead for this winning strategy?

                          SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                            @admin @juergen_hubert

                            you have to fight against the party to take over the party, absolutely

                            then once we control it, they support us

                            HELLO

                            are you trolling? what are you doing?

                            "So maybe the DSA should form a party"

                            oh yeah, divide the left vote in an FPTP voting system to guarantee 100 years of MAGA, real smart

                            no: the DSA *takes over the democratic party*

                            what is mamdani if not the beachhead for this winning strategy?

                            SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                            SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                            SlightlyCyberpunk
                            wrote last edited by
                            #16

                            @benroyce @juergen_hubert DSA *has* taken over the Democratic party at state levels. It doesn't work. The Democratic Party destroyed everything they could on the way out the door, leaving them to build a new party from scratch anyway, and then the national party and the wealthy donors built a new Democratic Party organization to oppose them.

                            Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                              @benroyce @juergen_hubert DSA *has* taken over the Democratic party at state levels. It doesn't work. The Democratic Party destroyed everything they could on the way out the door, leaving them to build a new party from scratch anyway, and then the national party and the wealthy donors built a new Democratic Party organization to oppose them.

                              Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                              Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                              Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                              wrote last edited by
                              #17

                              @admin @juergen_hubert

                              😂 😂 😂

                              i swear to god you have to be the most spineless whiny motherfucker i've met in a long time

                              yes: everything is hopeless, because enough people exist like you who are hopeless

                              do you have the faintest fucking perception in that head of yours that your piss poor attitude is a problem? have you ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?

                              you've given up before you've begun to fight. therefore you lose. absolutely, that is what will happen! because of your attitude

                              SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                                @admin @juergen_hubert

                                😂 😂 😂

                                i swear to god you have to be the most spineless whiny motherfucker i've met in a long time

                                yes: everything is hopeless, because enough people exist like you who are hopeless

                                do you have the faintest fucking perception in that head of yours that your piss poor attitude is a problem? have you ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?

                                you've given up before you've begun to fight. therefore you lose. absolutely, that is what will happen! because of your attitude

                                SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                SlightlyCyberpunk
                                wrote last edited by
                                #18

                                @benroyce @juergen_hubert I got plenty of hope. Hope that we can actually change things. Hope that we can do something other than the same damn strategy that's been failing for decades already. You're the one that seems to be saying that the only option is to settle in and enjoy the status quo.

                                SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                                  @benroyce @juergen_hubert I got plenty of hope. Hope that we can actually change things. Hope that we can do something other than the same damn strategy that's been failing for decades already. You're the one that seems to be saying that the only option is to settle in and enjoy the status quo.

                                  SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  SlightlyCyberpunk
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #19

                                  @benroyce @juergen_hubert My state has been voting for Democrats almost exclusively since the 80s. I must have missed the part where that fixed everything.

                                  Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                                    @benroyce @juergen_hubert My state has been voting for Democrats almost exclusively since the 80s. I must have missed the part where that fixed everything.

                                    Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                                    Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #20

                                    @admin @juergen_hubert

                                    Then propose an alternative approach. We can't start a third party in our stupid fucking voting system. So we're stuck with having to take over the dems. Im not calling it easy. Im calling it our only way forward. And youre not helping. And why? Third party dreams in RI (i think you're in RI)? Would you excuse me if i said this focus of yours is rather immaterial to national concerns? Please scope your words to national concerns and not your goals in RI

                                    SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                                      @admin @juergen_hubert

                                      Then propose an alternative approach. We can't start a third party in our stupid fucking voting system. So we're stuck with having to take over the dems. Im not calling it easy. Im calling it our only way forward. And youre not helping. And why? Third party dreams in RI (i think you're in RI)? Would you excuse me if i said this focus of yours is rather immaterial to national concerns? Please scope your words to national concerns and not your goals in RI

                                      SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      SlightlyCyberpunk
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #21

                                      @benroyce @juergen_hubert You can't go zero to national, doesn't matter if you're taking over the Dems or building something new. You start in the states you can change and you build from there. It's gonna take some time unfortunately. Should have started years ago, but second best time is now.

                                      Dumping FPTP would be a great step too, there's efforts to do that as well in plenty of places, including here in RI.

                                      Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • SlightlyCyberpunkA SlightlyCyberpunk

                                        @benroyce @juergen_hubert You can't go zero to national, doesn't matter if you're taking over the Dems or building something new. You start in the states you can change and you build from there. It's gonna take some time unfortunately. Should have started years ago, but second best time is now.

                                        Dumping FPTP would be a great step too, there's efforts to do that as well in plenty of places, including here in RI.

                                        Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ben Royce 🇺🇦B This user is from outside of this forum
                                        Ben Royce 🇺🇦
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #22

                                        @admin @juergen_hubert

                                        and we'll get fptp dumped by voting people in who will get that done

                                        we need *less* dreamers

                                        more effective action

                                        SlightlyCyberpunkA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Ben Royce 🇺🇦B Ben Royce 🇺🇦

                                          @admin @juergen_hubert

                                          and we'll get fptp dumped by voting people in who will get that done

                                          we need *less* dreamers

                                          more effective action

                                          SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          SlightlyCyberpunkA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          SlightlyCyberpunk
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #23

                                          @benroyce @juergen_hubert No, you start where that isn't an issue until you've got the momentum to run for bigger shit. I'm not talking about running for President, we aren't gonna get anyone left of center in there by *any* strategy without doing a lot of work locally first.

                                          Ben Royce 🇺🇦B 1 Reply Last reply
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