I had looked at the Beginner’s Box but it seemed more geared toward those new to TTRPGs in general versus just learning the new system. I could be wrong, though. For that reason we were looking at more of a short, guided adventure which led me to find Rusthenge and Crown of the Kobold King.

I just ran my very experienced in ttrpg but not pathfinder group through the beginner box, and everyone had a blast. Yes it has stuff to help someone who is totally new to ttrpging (pregened character sheets have a colored coded image of the dice and the dice that come in the box match the character sheet.) But my group all made their own characters with no restrictions.

There is a second adventure path that takes place after the beginner box, but it has not been remastered yet, called Troubles in Otari. As soon as our warrior returns from Antarctica we will be starting that path.

spitfire@pawb.social Yes, CotKK was rewritten for PF2e, but and it runs fine, but it’s still a port, you know? It has some rough edges. From the players’ side of thing, I’m sure it would be just fine, but as a new GM… Let’s just say, it was the first adventure I bought, and as a new GM I waited to play it until I felt more comfortable with the system. There’s nothing wrong with it, but there are places where you can feel how it’s not representative of the system. If that makes sense.

If you can get your hands on a cheap used copy of Menace under Otari, even if you don’t want to run it, it’s worth reading through as a GM. It really is purpose built for introducing the mechanics of the game, and is quite short.

There’s no pressing need to restrict first party books, or even third party series like BattleZoo or Team+ sources, but the splat books do offer a lot of options which can cause analysis paralysis. Because the system doesn’t have the same optimization meta as other, similar products, the expansiveness isn’t really an issue, but players often get bogged down in the details. People who are used to playing the optimization meta, even if they want to stop, sometimes can’t help themselves. I include myself in that group. I’m hesitant to suggest restricting books, though, because I think some of the more interesting classes are in splats: Guardian and Commander in War of Immortals, Magus in Secrets of Magic, and Thaumaturge in Dark Archive.

A couple of more things everyone at the table should be aware of, though, now that I’m thinking about it:

• The game has some fairly distinct tiers of play, even if the boundaries between them are somewhat fuzzy. This is especially noticeable from levels 1 - 5, which is what I like to call the “deadly things are deadly” tier. HP is low, AC is low, and critical hits are common. Not only is this where the game can feel quite a bit deadlier than people may be used to, but people who are used to being able to solve the “sharp, pointy objects hurt” problem with basic class options will often find themselves feeling a little impotent.
• Because Level is Power, and Power is Level, people who are used to established caster/martial power gap tropes may be caught off guard by the class balance, particularly before casters gain access to Rank 3 spells (i.e. Level 5). On-level enemies are real challenges to casters, not canon fodder, and at early levels they can be real threats. On top of that, the numbers are balanced around save spells failing as the default outcome (but a failed save spell also does half damage), which often leaves new magic users feeling less cool than they expected. This starts to go away starting around Level 5, once they start to exit the “deadly things are deadly” tier and begin to enter the “fantasy hero” tier, but until then… Let’s just say that people have had FEELINGS.

I’ve also run experienced TTRPG players through the beginner box and you can kinda gloss over some of the basic tutorials. But the learning environment was still nice to get people used to the 3 action economy in a low stakes environment.

You can also get Troubles in Otari to continue the beginner box to level 5ish.

Also with how short the beginner box is, even if your players don’t feel that they need it, if running that makes you more comfortable GMing its probably worth running so you can learn

I suppose I’m used to really broken builds being accomplished even early on from previous 3.5e and PF1e experience which is why I gravitated towards potentially locking out other books. Glad to hear that isn’t really the case or needed for PF2e.

I will see if I can find a used copy of Menace/Troubles to read through or if all else fails check my local game shop. Maybe the library might….they’ve had 5e books before.

We’re all going into this expecting something different than what we’re used to and the re-balancing is going to be a big part of it.

I’m still reading through the core books myself to more familiarize myself with everything. I guess I’m just anxious as well as I want it to be a fun experience.

I mean if your looking for a a small adventure then the beginners box is made for exactly that. Its encounters sorta all have a particular rule they sorta showcase. It has a sorta sequel adventure too and springs nicely into the main dungeon crawl adventure path because its located close by.

Hey I missed you already talked with someone on the beginners box but wanted to add that yeah the system is tight and you can power game but it does not make a character that much more powerful. Even with all the expansions I still see like rangers as being the top damage dealers early on and thieves later on but again not that big a difference. Im by no means the best for finding game breaking things. fighter with druid archetype is one and the gnome flail was another but again they were not that good. You could just not do free archtype to begin with but many people like the extra flexibility. The incapacitation trait with spells keep them from being insta boss kills spell wise.

spitfire@pawb.social Yeah, the system just shuts down that level of min/maxing. There are no builds in the game that break the encounter math assumptions, and if someone thinks they’ve found one, they’ve either read something wrong, or discovered somethinf that will be in the next round of errata.

Rolls are always done vs a DC, which means there’s no worry of a low-level creature invalidating a high level creature by rolling high vs a low row (or vice versa). That kind of wild luck has been stripped out.

Bonuses of the same type don’t stack, so you can’t throw Guidance, Bless, and Inspire Courage on someome to get them a +3 bonus to a roll. They’re all status bonuses, and for each bonus type you tax the MAX, not the SUM, of all that have been applied, so the total bonus from those 3 spells is +1. This limits the easy, cheesy math-hack solutions.

DCs are level based, and frow quite large, which means players get very very good at tackling old challenges, but there are some challenges that are functionally impossible to overcome at any given level. Natural 20s have well defined behaviours in the game, so there’s no “automatic success” cultural norm that breaks this.

It’s important to note, the level that you use for the level-based DCs is the challenge’s level, not the party’s. The leveled DC table is used in designing creature and hazard stat blocks, and when creating a leveled challenge on the fly. Many new GMs to the system misunderstand the table and instead constantly scale every challenge in the game with the party.

Group would be 5 players, one forever DM who is glad to play for once.

Sounds like a rather large group, but the forever DM is going to make things way easier so it should be fine.

I am looking through different books to try and find an introductory adventure for us to feel out PF2e. One-shots were considered but did not feel like they would teach us as much about PF2e compared to a small adventure.

I would definitely recommend the beginner’s box, especially since this is your first time GMing.

Does anyone have some advice for a first time DM who is looking to bring their group from 5e?

Look through this so that you are at least vaguely aware of where things are

Remember that this system heavily uses keywords, so it may be a little overwhelming at first but after a few sessions you should start recognizing things and running will become way easier.

If you cannot find the rule for something don’t be afraid to make up a ruling on the spot and then figure out the actual rule later. Although do be a little bit careful with the core math at first as the four degrees of success system and 3 action system make small changes have a large impact. Once you understand the math then it is a solid foundation to change to taste.

I would recommend that you ask each player what makes their class unique, that way you can see if they understand their character. This is because in DnD 5e almost all of the work is on the DM, whereas in PF2e it is much more evenly divided.

Emphasize that reactive strike (This system’s version of Opportunity Attack) is rare and that the players should feel free to actually move around. Combat in PF2e is usually much more dynamic despite movement being way more expensive.

Rarity does not necessarily correlate to power, but instead to how common the item is in Golarion (The setting the books are set in). It is still good to get players to ask you for them as it helps keep the setting’s theme coherent.

I would recommend against allowing SF2e items until you are more familiar with the assumptions of the system as while they follow the same fundamental math they have very different assumptions. For example SF2e allows flight from lvl 1 while PF2e only allows it from ~lvl 8.

Emphasize when modifiers make a difference. For example if you have a bard/cleric and their +1 turned a miss into a hit or a hit into a crit, you will be surprised how often that comes up.

Don’t see actions specified by skill feats as “You need this feat to do the thing” but rather “This feat makes you much better at the thing”. For example: Group Coercion allows the player to attempt to Coerce up to 5 targets at once, instead of preventing a PC from coercing a group without the feat you can instead make it a Very Hard check.

Encourage people to aid as much as possible. What I do is get the players to describe how they are aiding, and if it is particularly creative then I will give it the easy or even very easy modification

Magic items in this system are fundamental to progression, so unless you are using Automatic Bonus Progression you should be careful to give enough gold per level. Don’t worry too much about going over as you can restrict the level the players get items by limiting the settlement level or forcing them to craft their items, or you could allow them to have the higher level (and therefore more powerful) items and increase the encounter difficulty to compensate.

Give enough time for retraining, or even allow players to retrain for free for the first session or two. That way if they really don’t like how their character plays they have a chance to change it.

Trust the encounter building guidelines, unlike DnD 5e they actually work for the most part.

Also avoid throwing PL+4 enemies at the party for the first 3 levels as the math is rather swingy before lvl 4 and it is hard to counter high level single target bosses with lvl 1 spells. More experienced players don’t have as much issue as they can manipulate the system better.

At higher levels it is not nearly as much of an issue as optimized parties can take on more dangerous fights at higher levels There is a reason that lvl 25 monsters exist.

Even if you have the physical books I would still recommend having Archives of Nethys open on a phone/laptop for how much faster it is to find things.

Never assume that your players will do something, instead what I do is figure out what will happen if the players do nothing and go from there. If the players ignore the encounter you prepared then you can put it in your back pocket for later. This is coming from someone who largely runs more sandbox-y games so it may not be 100% applicable, but it is still good to keep player agency as your top priority. In addition never gate progression behind a skill check, no matter how trivial; instead you can have them ‘fail forward’

Don’t worry too much about messing up, your players understand that this is your first time GMing and will not care.

Finally and most importantly, remember that this is a game and your fun is just as important as everyone else’s.