Giving men a common antidepressant could help tackle domestic violence: world-first study
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Just untrue. Your twisting is not reflective of what I was saying at all.
The current system punishes people who commit domestic violence, and chances are, they go straight back to relationships and are incentivized to scare their partner to not report further abuse because they have been taught nothing through their punishment.
Plenty of people that commit certain crimes have conditions for re-entering society in whole and I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable.
You are suggesting government issued licenses/permission for private people to engage in private relationships.
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This study suggests that reduced sex drive is the most common side effect, but it impacts about 1/10. I can find no evidence that it is permanent (though see comments below!); stopping the drug should return most folks to normal.
Compare this treatment to incarceration: would you prefer to be less horny and free, or in jail? See also the patient reports in the article, talking about finally having some control in their lives.
You can be both horny and impotent at the same time. I’d still prefer to be free, of course.
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Plenty of people that commit certain crimes have conditions for re-entering society in whole and I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable.
You are suggesting government issued licenses/permission for private people to engage in private relationships.
Nope. I’m suggesting that people who offend (especially reoffenders) should go to therapy (locked ward) instead of prison and be taught how to be functioning human beings who don’t hurt others, especially those close to them. The sentence would be similar to their incarceration.
What I’m suggesting is akin to a prison sentence and probation (which may have terms and conditions).
You are acting like I’m talking about all people, but I’m limiting this to people who commit violent, domestic crime against others, especially repeatedly.
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Nope. I’m suggesting that people who offend (especially reoffenders) should go to therapy (locked ward) instead of prison and be taught how to be functioning human beings who don’t hurt others, especially those close to them. The sentence would be similar to their incarceration.
What I’m suggesting is akin to a prison sentence and probation (which may have terms and conditions).
You are acting like I’m talking about all people, but I’m limiting this to people who commit violent, domestic crime against others, especially repeatedly.
Lundy Bancroft is known for conducting the very thing you seem to be describing. If you haven’t already you should check out his works.
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Plenty of people that commit certain crimes have conditions for re-entering society in whole and I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable.
You are suggesting government issued licenses/permission for private people to engage in private relationships.
I’m not seeing where that was said?
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Lundy Bancroft is known for conducting the very thing you seem to be describing. If you haven’t already you should check out his works.
Never heard of this person, but given that there are accusations against them that are at the forefront of search results I’m unsure if I feel it prudent to expose myself to their works.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
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I’m not seeing where that was said?
they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
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they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
Why couldn’t you just respond like that to me?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
And on that day children, not a single citation was given.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
You’re actually going with “well they started it”? I guess men are finishing it, then.
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Many participants had issues such as homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Society is unwilling to help these men in desperate need of help until it is proven that it will help women first
What a weird thing to take away from the article.
Certainly you can think of at least a few organizations tackling homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Seriously it’s a single study into another topic. That’s just how science works. I’ll never understand when people get mad that a study exists and that it is somehow unable to cover every possibility of a complex topic in a single study.
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You’re actually going with “well they started it”? I guess men are finishing it, then.
Responding to a fallacy with a fallacy doesn’t really help either.
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Why couldn’t you just respond like that to me?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
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And yet… Research has repeatedly shown it’s women who instigate relationship violence.
Ah yes, the inevitable downvoters.
It’s been well established. You don’t like it? Shame that.
No I’m not providing a source. Your anger should motivate you to look.
Here’s a place to start: which relationships experience the most violence: Male/Female, Male/Male, Female/Female?
Interestingly, the male/male is the least violent, and female/female the most violent.
'Nuff said.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30186202/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6113571/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30465625/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7034778/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23271429/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4046894/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21731790/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8766270/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/sexual-orientation-disparities-ipv/ https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32064141/
So take your biases and fucking read.
Further, if men are the primary cause of violence in relationships then:
F/F relationships should show orders of magnitude less violence.
M/M should have the highest levels of violence and be orders of magnitude greater then F/M.
And yet none of this is true in any study.
Thank you for your comment, and welcome to my blocklist.
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The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices
Violent, reoffending adults who specifically engage in domestic violence - and I clarified that it should be as part of their incarceration/probation. Such restrictions already exist in certain cases as terms for probation and it doesn’t always revolve around protecting children.
Probation officers handle this just fine, there is no need for licenses affecting all adults. You twisted what I said, just admit it.
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This study suggests that reduced sex drive is the most common side effect, but it impacts about 1/10. I can find no evidence that it is permanent (though see comments below!); stopping the drug should return most folks to normal.
Compare this treatment to incarceration: would you prefer to be less horny and free, or in jail? See also the patient reports in the article, talking about finally having some control in their lives.
I can find no evidence that it is permanent; stopping the drug should return most folks to normal.
Most, but not all: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12991-023-00447-0
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Many participants had issues such as homelessness, untreated mental health disorders, substance use, relationship crises, disengagement from health services and conflicts with government institutions.
Society is unwilling to help these men in desperate need of help until it is proven that it will help women first
I’m reading the study to find the part where it says that these participants didn’t have any social or societal support to attempt to deal with their other problems.
Oh right - sorry I see now that you were just vocalising the chip on your shoulder.
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Ah shit I would love to take more antidepressants that will let me punch women in the face less which I already do 0 of!
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That’s cool, I never really deeply considered how important impulse control is in emotional regulation.
