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Wandering Adventure Party

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  3. Because of some comments I got under my last post…

Because of some comments I got under my last post…

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  • J jounniy@ttrpg.network

    I know it’s a joke, but I’d say “mostly dead” is just when you roll death saves.

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    kichae@lemmy.ca
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    That’s dying. Bleeding out. It’s not even necessarily truly unconscious (even if it is Unconscious).

    1 Reply Last reply
    6
    • DreamButtT DreamButt

      worrying about balance is another literalism imo. You can make anything fun and enjoyable with the right story, items, and creativity

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      kichae@lemmy.ca
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      “Balance” gets abused a lot, as a term. It means multiple things, and it results in people talking past each other.

      Intra-party balance – that is, everyone in the party being approximately equally capable – is important for most tables because most people resent getting clowned on by their so-called allies.

      Creature/encounter balance is not about forcing the fights players get into to be fair, but about having a reliable way of telling how hard the fight will be. That knowledge is not an obligation to make the fights fair.

      L 1 Reply Last reply
      7
      • J jounniy@ttrpg.network
        This post did not contain any content.
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        furbag@lemmy.world
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        Bro, first wall of force and now this? I need to sub to this community lol

        1 Reply Last reply
        13
        • S supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone

          So just buff the martials! Easy peasy

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          leninsovaries@lemmy.cafe
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          The Matt Colville approach

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Aielman15A Aielman15

            I think that the best thing about tabletop games is that you are not bound by someone else’s rules and can decide on the spot what works and what doesn’t. It makes for more interesting plays that just adhere to the words written on the page.

            A few years ago, me and my party were stuck in the sewers with giant invisible spiders stalking us. When they attacked us, the Paladin threw some water around so that the water hitting the invisible bodies would make them visible. There’s no specific rule for that, but it made for a cool moment.

            At the same time, even if Firebolt explicitly states that it sets objects on fire and Investiture of Flame doesn’t, if the Sorcerer wants to burn stuff with it, I’ll allow it.

            From experience, the only way to somewhat balance martials and casters is to either give the martials broken stuff, or play homebrew classes that actually care about giving them interesting features to play with.
            Allowing the players to interact with the environment using their tools (as long as they don’t specifically infringe on established rules) doesn’t change the power dynamics between casters and non-casters. Sure, it technically increases the utility of casters a bit more, but chances are that they have countless tools for the job anyway. The martials are still eating dirt miles behind them.

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            leninsovaries@lemmy.cafe
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            Balancing martials and casters is easy. All you have to do is sell your D&D books for Draw Steel books.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • K kichae@lemmy.ca

              “Balance” gets abused a lot, as a term. It means multiple things, and it results in people talking past each other.

              Intra-party balance – that is, everyone in the party being approximately equally capable – is important for most tables because most people resent getting clowned on by their so-called allies.

              Creature/encounter balance is not about forcing the fights players get into to be fair, but about having a reliable way of telling how hard the fight will be. That knowledge is not an obligation to make the fights fair.

              L This user is from outside of this forum
              L This user is from outside of this forum
              leninsovaries@lemmy.cafe
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              The ideal solution to intra party balance is to have the minmaxer play a healer

              1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • J jounniy@ttrpg.network
                This post did not contain any content.
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                twice_hatch@midwest.social
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                I touch myself

                J tgirlschierkeT 2 Replies Last reply
                9
                • T twice_hatch@midwest.social

                  I touch myself

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                  jounniy@ttrpg.network
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  Whatever floats your boat man.

                  A 1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • J jeeve65@ttrpg.network

                    If you look up the definition for an Object, it specifies that it is “a nonliving, distinct thing” — such as a corpse.

                    However, the definition of Creature does not say it must be living. So, a corpse is both a creature and an object.

                    There are even creatures that have never been living — such as constructs — and thus are also objects.

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                    jounniy@ttrpg.network
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    I think nonliving creatures may be more specific versions of objects then, since I couldn’t find any reference of creatures not being considered objects (because who would even say that, it should be obvious if you use your brain), but it also means that if a spell or ability only allows you to target or create objects and has no specification in regards to creatures, undead and constructs are valid targets by RAW.

                    D 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • A archpawn@lemmy.world

                      There’s no rule that says dead creatures can’t take action. You’ll usually become Unconscious first, but instant death effects including massive damage bypass that. So you can just keep playing.

                      This was clearer in 3.5, where it actually had an entry for the Dead condition which did not say you couldn’t take actions.

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                      jounniy@ttrpg.network
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      That’s on the same level as disintegrate making you able to play a sentient pile of dust.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      11
                      • DreamButtT DreamButt

                        Nah it’s an arbitrary window determined by your DM’s level of patience

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                        jounniy@ttrpg.network
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #29

                        I’d say it’s quite clear by RAW that once your third death save-fail happens your very much dead-dead. The DM is allowed to change any RAW of course (as this is RAW too), but without those changes it’s very much not arbitrary.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • S supernovastar@lemmy.blahaj.zone

                          So just buff the martials! Easy peasy

                          J This user is from outside of this forum
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                          jounniy@ttrpg.network
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          Properly buffing martials without creating different problems in the process is actually far harder than it seems I’d say.

                          But yes other than that it’s a good solution as well.

                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Aielman15A Aielman15

                            I think that the best thing about tabletop games is that you are not bound by someone else’s rules and can decide on the spot what works and what doesn’t. It makes for more interesting plays that just adhere to the words written on the page.

                            A few years ago, me and my party were stuck in the sewers with giant invisible spiders stalking us. When they attacked us, the Paladin threw some water around so that the water hitting the invisible bodies would make them visible. There’s no specific rule for that, but it made for a cool moment.

                            At the same time, even if Firebolt explicitly states that it sets objects on fire and Investiture of Flame doesn’t, if the Sorcerer wants to burn stuff with it, I’ll allow it.

                            From experience, the only way to somewhat balance martials and casters is to either give the martials broken stuff, or play homebrew classes that actually care about giving them interesting features to play with.
                            Allowing the players to interact with the environment using their tools (as long as they don’t specifically infringe on established rules) doesn’t change the power dynamics between casters and non-casters. Sure, it technically increases the utility of casters a bit more, but chances are that they have countless tools for the job anyway. The martials are still eating dirt miles behind them.

                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            jounniy@ttrpg.network
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            I think that’s a big strength of tabletops too, but I sometimes wish people would adhere a bit more to the rules, because while some things are not covered by them, changing the things that are is a good way to get me to be very hesitant to do anything because I can’t rely on achieving anything close to the intended outcome if I can’t rely on the rules.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • DreamButtT DreamButt

                              worrying about balance is another literalism imo. You can make anything fun and enjoyable with the right story, items, and creativity

                              J This user is from outside of this forum
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                              jounniy@ttrpg.network
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #32

                              Yes you can. I’ve just made the experience that people enjoy balanced games more than unbalanced ones.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • DreamButtT DreamButt

                                Taking thing literally (especially in an RP game) just shows a lake of creativity. Table top books like DND have always been a framework to give you ideas. everything else is between you and the players

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                                jounniy@ttrpg.network
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #33

                                Well that’s a very general accusation for a stance that could have a multitude of reasons.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • skulblakaS skulblaka

                                  As per the 2024 rules update (which I have beef with but am using here to make my point) :

                                  Resurrection

                                  Level 7 Necromancy (Bard, Cleric)

                                  Casting Time: 1 hour Range: Touch Components: V, S, M (a diamond worth 1,000+ GP, which the spell consumes) Duration: Instantaneous

                                  With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, didn’t die of old age, and wasn’t Undead when it died.

                                  The creature returns to life with all its Hit Points. This spell also neutralizes any poisons that affected the creature at the time of death. This spell closes all mortal wounds and restores any missing body parts.

                                  Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to D20 Tests. Every time the target finishes a Long Rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it becomes 0.

                                  Casting this spell to revive a creature that has been dead for 365 days or longer taxes you. Until you finish a Long Rest, you can’t cast spells again, and you have Disadvantage on D20 Tests.

                                  I cast Resurrection on the lich BBEG. In 5e Resurrection no longer states that the soul must be willing to return in order for it to work, and there’s no save, so it should just work if I’m able to touch him. Takes an hour to cast but we’re not worried about that right now.

                                  Does it resurrect him properly? New mortal flesh, soul stuffed into it, meaning he is now no longer immortal and loses most of his legendary actions, and the phylactery becomes inert because it’s no longer containing a soul? Extending from this, is a proper resurrection just a “get out of undeath free” card and if so why don’t we see it used on every undead? It specifies and wasn’t Undead when it died but I think most Undead go from Living to Dead to Undead in that order, liches included.

                                  Does it just instantly dust him, like throwing a Phoenix Down at an undead does in Final Fantasy?

                                  This used to be a solved problem, but between 2014 and 2024 they changed the wording on Resurrection from

                                  You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn’t die of old age, and that isn’t undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its hit points.

                                  to, now:

                                  With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, didn’t die of old age, and wasn’t Undead when it died.

                                  There must be a reason why this was changed. I need answers.

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                                  jounniy@ttrpg.network
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #34

                                  It’s a bit weird, but DMG page 24 (though I’m talking 2014 here) specifies that generally an unwilling soul can’t be forced back into the body. So unless a spell specifies otherwise, this would not work.

                                  Because of how this spell is worded, assuming the Lich got killed at least once while being a Lich means he’ll be unable to be targeted by this either way because he was undead when he died.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • skulblakaS skulblaka

                                    As per the 2024 rules update (which I have beef with but am using here to make my point) :

                                    Resurrection

                                    Level 7 Necromancy (Bard, Cleric)

                                    Casting Time: 1 hour Range: Touch Components: V, S, M (a diamond worth 1,000+ GP, which the spell consumes) Duration: Instantaneous

                                    With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, didn’t die of old age, and wasn’t Undead when it died.

                                    The creature returns to life with all its Hit Points. This spell also neutralizes any poisons that affected the creature at the time of death. This spell closes all mortal wounds and restores any missing body parts.

                                    Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to D20 Tests. Every time the target finishes a Long Rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it becomes 0.

                                    Casting this spell to revive a creature that has been dead for 365 days or longer taxes you. Until you finish a Long Rest, you can’t cast spells again, and you have Disadvantage on D20 Tests.

                                    I cast Resurrection on the lich BBEG. In 5e Resurrection no longer states that the soul must be willing to return in order for it to work, and there’s no save, so it should just work if I’m able to touch him. Takes an hour to cast but we’re not worried about that right now.

                                    Does it resurrect him properly? New mortal flesh, soul stuffed into it, meaning he is now no longer immortal and loses most of his legendary actions, and the phylactery becomes inert because it’s no longer containing a soul? Extending from this, is a proper resurrection just a “get out of undeath free” card and if so why don’t we see it used on every undead? It specifies and wasn’t Undead when it died but I think most Undead go from Living to Dead to Undead in that order, liches included.

                                    Does it just instantly dust him, like throwing a Phoenix Down at an undead does in Final Fantasy?

                                    This used to be a solved problem, but between 2014 and 2024 they changed the wording on Resurrection from

                                    You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn’t die of old age, and that isn’t undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its hit points.

                                    to, now:

                                    With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, didn’t die of old age, and wasn’t Undead when it died.

                                    There must be a reason why this was changed. I need answers.

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                                    cryptiod137@lemmy.world
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #35

                                    Interesting questions

                                    In terms of going from living to dead to undead, no solid answer there. Some Lich creation stories have them dieing, some don’t.

                                    An undead creature simply isn’t dead. It has an animating force that is not life, but it’s not dead. Both the 2014 and 2024 rules specify a dead creature, but an undead is not dead.

                                    Now let’s saying we ignored that, yeah I think all that would happen. Every undead would be pretty difficult, casting 7th spells is hard and it’s only cleric and bard. It would end up being a magical logistics problem more than anything.

                                    They took out the willing part as it was stifling creative uses of spells from what I recall, one of the interviews/ads for the new books.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • J jounniy@ttrpg.network

                                      Whatever floats your boat man.

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                                      AwesomeLowlander
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #36

                                      That’s going to require a LOT of touching.

                                      J 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • A AwesomeLowlander

                                        That’s going to require a LOT of touching.

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                                        jounniy@ttrpg.network
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #37

                                        Okay. I’ll admit: I don’t get it.

                                        A 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • J jounniy@ttrpg.network

                                          Okay. I’ll admit: I don’t get it.

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                                          AwesomeLowlander
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #38

                                          Floating a boat generally requires liquid. A LOT of liquid.

                                          J 1 Reply Last reply
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