So, in my circles, the phrase "purity culture" refers to the harmful & abusive attitudes & behavior around sex & sexuality in religious communities (especially within evangelicalism).
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@johnbrowntypeface @artemis
4b. This constitutes calling out "fire" after the building has already taken irreparable damage and most saveable people are dead or can no longer be saved
4c. In the event something can be done, this type of person is not competent or capable of doing it.
5. This type of organization is therefore illusory, it provides false reassurance, diverts resources, and prevents sound action.
6. This type of organization permanently diverts attention from both the development of theories of sound long term planning and the sound epistemics and praxis of immediacy and triage, which are overwhelmingly messy, low status, and illegible.@johnbrowntypeface @artemis If you actually think you are in a crisis why are you talking and not moving? If you think you understand what to do in a crisis, why are you talking with other people who are talking and not looking for the people who are moving and trying to move like them? I'm also bad at this. A lot of the time I am mapping my own problems onto other people, but I don't think that's unreasonable. I admit it's very hard to get non-noisy feedback about it.
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@Alephwyr @artemis
i think calling something purity politics is usually just a defense mechanism, but there are times when it seems to fitin this case with Cory he seems to be running into folks who are calling him out for having inconsistent political principles (similar to when he stopped masking).
whatever one's politics, once they deviate to a certain degree from what's stated there will be pushback
@johnbrowntypeface @artemis Yeah I dunno, I still broadly like Doctorow, I think attacking Doctorow is a bad use of energy. It is also maybe silly to publicly push back on these things? Just let people blow smoke. If the high context particulars of your social station require some sort of answer you need to get better at laconicism and wit so that it can be efficient and have the judo-like properties of disincentivizing aggressive rhetoric.
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@johnbrowntypeface @artemis Yeah I dunno, I still broadly like Doctorow, I think attacking Doctorow is a bad use of energy. It is also maybe silly to publicly push back on these things? Just let people blow smoke. If the high context particulars of your social station require some sort of answer you need to get better at laconicism and wit so that it can be efficient and have the judo-like properties of disincentivizing aggressive rhetoric.
different strokes, i guess
Doctorow has a lot of money and influence among 'radicals'/progressives so talking about the importance of masking (then stopping randomly) or being against Big Tech and then supporting world-ending AI has a much bigger footprint than if you or i did so
will calling him out change things? not for him, especially since he reacts defensively instead of thinking on the more respectful counters
but 'the audience' might get something outta it
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different strokes, i guess
Doctorow has a lot of money and influence among 'radicals'/progressives so talking about the importance of masking (then stopping randomly) or being against Big Tech and then supporting world-ending AI has a much bigger footprint than if you or i did so
will calling him out change things? not for him, especially since he reacts defensively instead of thinking on the more respectful counters
but 'the audience' might get something outta it
@johnbrowntypeface @artemis I admit having not paid sufficient attention. I am also anti big tech and pro world-ending AI, though I would prefer the technicality of the world ending without anyone dying.
Also, "stopped talking about masking" is much more absurd than what it sounded like. That's an expression of entitlement to labor towards a man who has already provided labor. That's a case of punishing sympathy and good faith because you think the sympathetic person can be pushed on and the unsympathetic person cannot, which is perverse. Even if it slows things down or requires going without sometimes you should not do that, liberatory politics should be treated as a climb and not a race, and you should be more interested in keeping three limbs on the rock face whenever possible than going fast.
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@johnbrowntypeface @artemis I admit having not paid sufficient attention. I am also anti big tech and pro world-ending AI, though I would prefer the technicality of the world ending without anyone dying.
Also, "stopped talking about masking" is much more absurd than what it sounded like. That's an expression of entitlement to labor towards a man who has already provided labor. That's a case of punishing sympathy and good faith because you think the sympathetic person can be pushed on and the unsympathetic person cannot, which is perverse. Even if it slows things down or requires going without sometimes you should not do that, liberatory politics should be treated as a climb and not a race, and you should be more interested in keeping three limbs on the rock face whenever possible than going fast.
i can see how it reads that way but that's not what i was saying. Cory continued to mask during the ongoing COVID pandemic, appearing at DefCon masked for example. this was two or three years into the pandemic when many believed or pretended it was over and so they no longer took precautions
somewhat recently, after becoming more popular and making more money, he abruptly stopped masking. i wasn't critiquing him speaking about masking.
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@johnbrowntypeface @artemis I admit having not paid sufficient attention. I am also anti big tech and pro world-ending AI, though I would prefer the technicality of the world ending without anyone dying.
Also, "stopped talking about masking" is much more absurd than what it sounded like. That's an expression of entitlement to labor towards a man who has already provided labor. That's a case of punishing sympathy and good faith because you think the sympathetic person can be pushed on and the unsympathetic person cannot, which is perverse. Even if it slows things down or requires going without sometimes you should not do that, liberatory politics should be treated as a climb and not a race, and you should be more interested in keeping three limbs on the rock face whenever possible than going fast.
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@johnbrowntypeface @artemis Reasonable. For my sake I've been able bodied most of my life but never gone outside anyway. However, I have also never done anything useful. Other people's priorities ought to make sense for me, but for some reason don't. I have whatever the Hikkikomori version is of the bitter immigrant persona where I can see ways people could avoid problems by living less like human beings and the failure to do so instinctively reads as unseriousness.
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It's really frustrating having a term people like me use to describe the trauma that shaped us picked up & used in some vague & non-specific way for no particular reason.
If you Google the term, you'll see references to the meaning I am using. People can come up with another term for their annoyance at people who have opinions about what they should or shouldn't do.
Don't steal terms from trauma survivors. We're using those.
@artemis they're using it deliberately to equate what they're pointing at with cultish abusive Christianity. It is not an accidental confusion or off-label usage.
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@matildalove I saw him arguing here on Mastodon that his post doesn't read as (little-l) libertarian. It's, um, not as convincing as he was going for, I'm sure.
same energy as when you call a nazi a nazi and they argue about it
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Please understand: we need the term "purity culture" in part because we need to be able to talk about the Christo-fascist takeover of our government.
We need to be able to talk about & understand the way purity culture plays into power & oppression, its relationship to white supremacy, its influence on people's thinking, & how we can counter this shit & do something different.
You may not think it's relevant to you, but it is, because Christian Nationalists have made this EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM.
Thank you for this!
Excessive virtue testing as a description for progressive infighting could have stayed that way (and to me is much more descriptive).
Labelling that as purity culture seems odd, especially since it takes an already established term away from you.
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@artemis Thank you! He misused it, and now the Mastodon discourse is doing the same by mirroring his misuse without correcting it. Surely he was trying to invoke purity spirals & purity tests – which are completely different & separate from purity culture!
See also:
https://mastodon.world/@mrs_malice/116109416963649565And on top of it all, he misused it for the obnoxious misguided reason of defending botslop.
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