But at least we only spent a trillion dollars on it, right?
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus to us the critical thing to understand is that it is a "negotiation" tactic, a specific step within an ongoing conflict intended to nudge things towards outcomes capital prefers
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus we would definitely not pin anything important on the "communicated goal" part of it; we understand the temptation, since the US legal concept of "protected concerted activity" does typically require that, but ultimately that's an attempt by capital to force dissent into easier-to-control ways such as full-on strikes.
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus we would definitely not pin anything important on the "communicated goal" part of it; we understand the temptation, since the US legal concept of "protected concerted activity" does typically require that, but ultimately that's an attempt by capital to force dissent into easier-to-control ways such as full-on strikes.
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus work slowdowns, sickouts etc are not morally inferior to full stoppages, and they are safer in high-retaliation environments.
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus work slowdowns, sickouts etc are not morally inferior to full stoppages, and they are safer in high-retaliation environments.
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus we would certainly say that capital's goals are illegitimate ones, but it isn't really the fact that rich asshats don't explicitly say "I am going to force you all to do what I say" that makes them illegitimate
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus we would certainly say that capital's goals are illegitimate ones, but it isn't really the fact that rich asshats don't explicitly say "I am going to force you all to do what I say" that makes them illegitimate
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus this is just a nuance we're attempting to add, we're not disagreeing with your overall point
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@nixCraft/116126552546349967
But at least we only spent a trillion dollars on it, right?
@jenniferplusplus such a shame
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus work slowdowns, sickouts etc are not morally inferior to full stoppages, and they are safer in high-retaliation environments.
@ireneista @jenniferplusplus
not arguing against full stoppages, but a strike without goals or demands doesn't seem very useful to me -
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus this is just a nuance we're attempting to add, we're not disagreeing with your overall point
@ireneista @jenniferplusplus
I mean you can probably also have illegitimate labor strikes (not just legally but also morally)anyway, what about "sabotaging the civil society" or "war against the civil society"?
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That's part of what makes a capital strike non-obvious, if you don't already know what it looks like. It's not just sitting on the money and refusing to spend it. Because that's the one thing you literally can't do with capital. If you leave those resources idle, especially labor, it just goes and does its own thing. You lose control over it. If you just fire everyone, they eventually start working for themselves.
So, to conduct a capital strike, you have to direct the capital toward useless things. Or actually destructive things, if you can manage it.
And thus, AI had "basically zero" effect on the GDP. Because it's economically worthless activity for the purpose of keeping all the resources occupied so they can't be put to any other use.
@jenniferplusplus I have not heard of capital strike until now and it sounds like how retail storefronts stay empty while rents keep increasing and squeezing out small business owners.
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@ireneista @jenniferplusplus
I mean you can probably also have illegitimate labor strikes (not just legally but also morally)anyway, what about "sabotaging the civil society" or "war against the civil society"?
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus sounds like the right general direction
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@jenniferplusplus @ireneista
if I just silently refuse to work and maybe embezzle my employers resources without any communicated goal that wouldn't be called a "strike" either@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus @ireneista The publicly stated goal/promise is to divert all the money that currently gets "wasted" on "NPCs" who need to do trivial things like eat, back into the accounts of the shareholders. IDK if "strike" is the right word here, but it's certainly about acquiring and leveraging more power over us little people.
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus @ireneista The publicly stated goal/promise is to divert all the money that currently gets "wasted" on "NPCs" who need to do trivial things like eat, back into the accounts of the shareholders. IDK if "strike" is the right word here, but it's certainly about acquiring and leveraging more power over us little people.
@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus @ireneista
We need to end capitalism. We don't have to end markets. We don't have to (and shouldn't) end distributed decision-making. In fact, the real problem is a dearth of these things. We already have centralized control, thanks to our current economic system's ongoing concentration of wealth.
Imagine what an economy made up entirely of cooperatives would look like. Decision-making: distributed equally among stakeholders. Profit: distributed equally among stakeholders. No more perverse incentives to exploit workers and customers for the sake of far off shareholders who don't have to see the consequences of their actions on the local community, because the shareholders *are* the local community.
How much more money, and power over our own lives, would we all have if we didn't have to pay the transactional tax known as "profit" in perpetuity for a one-time investment of capital? *We* would have the capital then!
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@Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus @ireneista
We need to end capitalism. We don't have to end markets. We don't have to (and shouldn't) end distributed decision-making. In fact, the real problem is a dearth of these things. We already have centralized control, thanks to our current economic system's ongoing concentration of wealth.
Imagine what an economy made up entirely of cooperatives would look like. Decision-making: distributed equally among stakeholders. Profit: distributed equally among stakeholders. No more perverse incentives to exploit workers and customers for the sake of far off shareholders who don't have to see the consequences of their actions on the local community, because the shareholders *are* the local community.
How much more money, and power over our own lives, would we all have if we didn't have to pay the transactional tax known as "profit" in perpetuity for a one-time investment of capital? *We* would have the capital then!
@hosford42 @Doomed_Daniel @jenniferplusplus yes, this is an excellent goal which we wholeheartedly support
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@ireneista @jenniferplusplus
not arguing against full stoppages, but a strike without goals or demands doesn't seem very useful to me@Doomed_Daniel @ireneista
They're pretty clear about their goals, actually
https://thenetworkstate.com/ -
@jenniferplusplus I have not heard of capital strike until now and it sounds like how retail storefronts stay empty while rents keep increasing and squeezing out small business owners.
@zompus Yeah, same basic dynamic. But there's only so far they can push that before people just leave and the capitalists lose the power they had by virtue of owning all the real estate. Which is why they went so hard on forced return to office plans.
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@jenniferplusplus And 'free market' means freedom to manage and deploy capital... not money.
The rhetorical land mine is the 'free' in Free Market. Markets need to be Fair, not Free. Because people are criminals.
So here's the rule: as varies risk, so must vary regulation, both inside and out. "Capitalists" want less regulation and wonder why people think they're crooks
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@nixCraft/116126552546349967
But at least we only spent a trillion dollars on it, right?
@jenniferplusplus It costs much more to produce AI than it returns. It is just another scam from the epstein class.
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@zompus Yeah, same basic dynamic. But there's only so far they can push that before people just leave and the capitalists lose the power they had by virtue of owning all the real estate. Which is why they went so hard on forced return to office plans.
@jenniferplusplus Yep. I work in HVAC engineering and there's lots of talk about how office buildings are very vacant and new construction is down as a result. Then again the uncertainty from having senile fascist narcissists in charge of the country doesn't help.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@nixCraft/116126552546349967
But at least we only spent a trillion dollars on it, right?
I think the best news of all is that reasonable business leaders will cut their losses and won't keep pouring endless money down the drain or setting it on fire. This "AI" hype is finally over!
/s
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That's part of what makes a capital strike non-obvious, if you don't already know what it looks like. It's not just sitting on the money and refusing to spend it. Because that's the one thing you literally can't do with capital. If you leave those resources idle, especially labor, it just goes and does its own thing. You lose control over it. If you just fire everyone, they eventually start working for themselves.
So, to conduct a capital strike, you have to direct the capital toward useless things. Or actually destructive things, if you can manage it.
And thus, AI had "basically zero" effect on the GDP. Because it's economically worthless activity for the purpose of keeping all the resources occupied so they can't be put to any other use.
@jenniferplusplus I was thinking that Musk's data centres in space idea was to add solar panels to the list of items the AI industry is hoarding.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@nixCraft/116126552546349967
But at least we only spent a trillion dollars on it, right?
@jenniferplusplus "Your organization rarely has good ideas, ideas being expensive to implement was actually helping"
