Funny...
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Funny... Someone was getting indirectly dragged for saying that the theatre kids had destroyed the #ttrpg hobby and blah blah blah
Y'know... As someone who was part of the 1990s White Wolf cohort, my impression of the hobby is that, after the collapse of TSR, the combat nerds got exactly what they wanted and have continued to get exactly what they wanted for each successive decade since that to the point where the hobby is in the process of being re-absorbed by board and wargaming.
@Taskerland *pushes glasses up nose* Now let me tell you who has destroyed the #ttrpg hobby...
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Funny... Someone was getting indirectly dragged for saying that the theatre kids had destroyed the #ttrpg hobby and blah blah blah
Y'know... As someone who was part of the 1990s White Wolf cohort, my impression of the hobby is that, after the collapse of TSR, the combat nerds got exactly what they wanted and have continued to get exactly what they wanted for each successive decade since that to the point where the hobby is in the process of being re-absorbed by board and wargaming.
@Taskerland Yep. The "theatre kids" (among which I was numbered ... in 1977!) have decisively lost the tabletop RPG war. Despite the myriad of drama/improv-focused games being published, putting all of them together and then under a x10 magnifying glass still makes them a tiny piece of the D&D-and-workalikes pie.
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@Taskerland Yep. The "theatre kids" (among which I was numbered ... in 1977!) have decisively lost the tabletop RPG war. Despite the myriad of drama/improv-focused games being published, putting all of them together and then under a x10 magnifying glass still makes them a tiny piece of the D&D-and-workalikes pie.
@ZDL It's an implementation thing too... I remember back in the days of the FORGE thinking that their conceptions of narratives and gamism resulted in very similar games with subtly different ethoi because they were both games you experienced rules-first. To this day there are people who play PbtA games like D20, sitting and waiting for the opportunity to deploy their niche-protected feats.
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Funny... Someone was getting indirectly dragged for saying that the theatre kids had destroyed the #ttrpg hobby and blah blah blah
Y'know... As someone who was part of the 1990s White Wolf cohort, my impression of the hobby is that, after the collapse of TSR, the combat nerds got exactly what they wanted and have continued to get exactly what they wanted for each successive decade since that to the point where the hobby is in the process of being re-absorbed by board and wargaming.
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Funny... Someone was getting indirectly dragged for saying that the theatre kids had destroyed the #ttrpg hobby and blah blah blah
Y'know... As someone who was part of the 1990s White Wolf cohort, my impression of the hobby is that, after the collapse of TSR, the combat nerds got exactly what they wanted and have continued to get exactly what they wanted for each successive decade since that to the point where the hobby is in the process of being re-absorbed by board and wargaming.
@Taskerland Metastasized by board gaming...
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@SJohnRoss I suspect that 'theatre kids' is quite often just code for 'queer' or 'femme' or 'not a human armpit'.
Either way, I think it takes a special kind of delusion to look at the recent history of RPGs and conclude that theatrical, RP-focused types have somehow been in the driving seat.
Even during the WW years, those types generally wound up getting routed into LARPs.
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@ZDL It's an implementation thing too... I remember back in the days of the FORGE thinking that their conceptions of narratives and gamism resulted in very similar games with subtly different ethoi because they were both games you experienced rules-first. To this day there are people who play PbtA games like D20, sitting and waiting for the opportunity to deploy their niche-protected feats.
@Taskerland I always took the stance, after they started showing up on market (my first exposure was Maelstrom Storytelling) that "story games" were simulation games just as much as were the advanced tactical simulators like AD&D. They just simulated something different: the narrative beats and genre tropes of stories instead of the minutiae of physical motion and contact.
So yes, they are rules-first. But still focused in different directions.
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@Taskerland I always took the stance, after they started showing up on market (my first exposure was Maelstrom Storytelling) that "story games" were simulation games just as much as were the advanced tactical simulators like AD&D. They just simulated something different: the narrative beats and genre tropes of stories instead of the minutiae of physical motion and contact.
So yes, they are rules-first. But still focused in different directions.
@Taskerland I'm not sure what a **game** that wasn't rules-facing would even look like. Unless I'm just missing something. Can you think of any?
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@Taskerland I always took the stance, after they started showing up on market (my first exposure was Maelstrom Storytelling) that "story games" were simulation games just as much as were the advanced tactical simulators like AD&D. They just simulated something different: the narrative beats and genre tropes of stories instead of the minutiae of physical motion and contact.
So yes, they are rules-first. But still focused in different directions.
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@Taskerland I'm not sure what a **game** that wasn't rules-facing would even look like. Unless I'm just missing something. Can you think of any?
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@Taskerland Mine too. I came at D&D in '77 from the drama flakes side of the fence, not the wargamers' side. I **made** the rules transparent by basically letting other people tell me when I had to roll dice and what to roll. Then they'd interpret the results and I'd use it as the prompt for improv.
I still do it that way. It's just that the rules are now focused on supplying improv prompts instead of supplying them on accident.
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@Taskerland Mine too. I came at D&D in '77 from the drama flakes side of the fence, not the wargamers' side. I **made** the rules transparent by basically letting other people tell me when I had to roll dice and what to roll. Then they'd interpret the results and I'd use it as the prompt for improv.
I still do it that way. It's just that the rules are now focused on supplying improv prompts instead of supplying them on accident.
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@SJohnRoss I suspect that 'theatre kids' is quite often just code for 'queer' or 'femme' or 'not a human armpit'.
Either way, I think it takes a special kind of delusion to look at the recent history of RPGs and conclude that theatrical, RP-focused types have somehow been in the driving seat.
Even during the WW years, those types generally wound up getting routed into LARPs.
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