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  3. Canada dropped the Digital Services Tax because of dairy supply management

Canada dropped the Digital Services Tax because of dairy supply management

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  • S This user is from outside of this forum
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    sbv@sh.itjust.works
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

    Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

    (From the Globe)

    That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

    Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

    83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

    During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

    I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

    kbalK peppycito@sh.itjust.worksP T W S 13 Replies Last reply
    42
    • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

      Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

      Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

      (From the Globe)

      That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

      Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

      83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

      During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

      I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

      kbalK This user is from outside of this forum
      kbalK This user is from outside of this forum
      kbal
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Perhaps the prime minister could take a moment out of his busy schedule to tell us what the fuck he was thinking if it’s anything other than “we’re absolutely desperate to make a deal and have no choice but to give them whatever they want.”

      S 1 Reply Last reply
      17
      • kbalK kbal

        Perhaps the prime minister could take a moment out of his busy schedule to tell us what the fuck he was thinking if it’s anything other than “we’re absolutely desperate to make a deal and have no choice but to give them whatever they want.”

        S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        sbv@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        I suspect the PM doesn’t want to alienate other voting blocks by saying it out loud. Just like he really didn’t want to piss off older Canadians by saying his policies would lower house prices.

        I agree with you, but he’s smart enough to know that an embarrassing sound bite will play forever in CPC ads, along with a scary voice over like “he’s willing to screw over Canadian businesses for dirty yucky Quebec, so why won’t he bend over for Alberta’s Big Beautiful fossil fuel producers?”

        1 Reply Last reply
        6
        • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

          Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

          Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

          (From the Globe)

          That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

          Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

          83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

          During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

          I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

          peppycito@sh.itjust.worksP This user is from outside of this forum
          peppycito@sh.itjust.worksP This user is from outside of this forum
          peppycito@sh.itjust.works
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Same thing happened with NAFTA. We sold so many industries down the river for French cows.

          S 1 Reply Last reply
          3
          • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

            Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

            Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

            (From the Globe)

            That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

            Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

            83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

            During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

            I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

            T This user is from outside of this forum
            T This user is from outside of this forum
            teppa
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I love spending 30$ on a tiny brick of cheese instead of having to pirate all my US media.

            1 Reply Last reply
            4
            • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

              Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

              Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

              (From the Globe)

              That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

              Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

              83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

              During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

              I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

              W This user is from outside of this forum
              W This user is from outside of this forum
              wise_pancake@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by wise_pancake@lemmy.ca
              #6

              Not happy with this at all

              For all the US’s rhetoric about trade deficits being bad, we need to say we don’t want a trade deficit on digital services and we’re using tariffs the same way they are.

              We aren’t unique in having a tax like this, and the US has no place saying it’s unfair when it’s not even only foreign companies paying. We’re literally don’t the opposite of a tarif today.

              Plus the US government is subsidizing their tech companies especially in the AI space.

              S 1 Reply Last reply
              11
              • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

                Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

                (From the Globe)

                That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

                Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

                83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

                During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

                I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

                S This user is from outside of this forum
                S This user is from outside of this forum
                slayan@lemmy.ca
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Hello could you point to me where the leger firm statement about supply management is? I’m trying to find it and i can’t. The only thing i found about it is citynew aka rogers saying they translated a story from lapresse but i can’t even find this.

                It’s also stated that the poll were made in two days and pulled/asked 1001 person, so i doesn’t really represent the quebec population. Also when i try to find anything related to supply management, everything is 1-2 yeara old

                Tl dr: this seems like a shit report, and i’m unable to find any source. Do you have any?

                S 1 Reply Last reply
                2
                • S slayan@lemmy.ca

                  Hello could you point to me where the leger firm statement about supply management is? I’m trying to find it and i can’t. The only thing i found about it is citynew aka rogers saying they translated a story from lapresse but i can’t even find this.

                  It’s also stated that the poll were made in two days and pulled/asked 1001 person, so i doesn’t really represent the quebec population. Also when i try to find anything related to supply management, everything is 1-2 yeara old

                  Tl dr: this seems like a shit report, and i’m unable to find any source. Do you have any?

                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  sbv@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Nothing beyond the link in the post. It’s consistent with what I’ve heard in other media, the Bloc’s supply management trade bill, and Maxime Bernier’s recent political success (🤣).

                  I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a push poll from the dairy industry, but it represents the goals of notable Quebec constituency.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • W wise_pancake@lemmy.ca

                    Not happy with this at all

                    For all the US’s rhetoric about trade deficits being bad, we need to say we don’t want a trade deficit on digital services and we’re using tariffs the same way they are.

                    We aren’t unique in having a tax like this, and the US has no place saying it’s unfair when it’s not even only foreign companies paying. We’re literally don’t the opposite of a tarif today.

                    Plus the US government is subsidizing their tech companies especially in the AI space.

                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    sbv@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Fair enough. There’s a push and pull in negotiations that we (generally) don’t see. I’m trying to read the tea leaves to figure out why Carney would ditch the DST, and this is a possible reason. I can’t know if it’s the reason. But it’s interesting to think about.

                    We aren’t unique in having a tax like this,

                    I think we’re unique in that we made our tax retroactive.

                    and the US has no place saying it’s unfair when it’s not even only foreign companies paying.

                    Generally, I agree that the US has no place dictating our tax policy, but they are within their rights to control their trade with us. 90% of the companies paying are US tech companies (I think that’s in the Globe explainer), so I can see why poking us to see what they can get. I don’t like it, but that’s (sadly) irrelevant.

                    W 1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                      Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

                      Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

                      (From the Globe)

                      That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

                      Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

                      83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

                      During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

                      I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      Rentlar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      I am very disappointed that we are retaliating slowly but conceding quickly. If no deal is reached by the deadline or we get a stupid letter dictating the universal tariff, put the DST back on.

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                      26
                      • peppycito@sh.itjust.worksP peppycito@sh.itjust.works

                        Same thing happened with NAFTA. We sold so many industries down the river for French cows.

                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                        sbv@sh.itjust.works
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I’m not too familiar with the NAFTA negotiations, but it seems on-brand.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • R Rentlar

                          I am very disappointed that we are retaliating slowly but conceding quickly. If no deal is reached by the deadline or we get a stupid letter dictating the universal tariff, put the DST back on.

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          sbv@sh.itjust.works
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          There was a lot of talk about elbows up, but I’m unclear what is being taxed and how. There’s a list, but I don’t know what that represents in terms of financial cost to Canadian buyers and US producers.

                          Like, is it a tiny bit of posturing for the home crowd, or is it something that will hurt US industries (and Canadian buyers)? I don’t know.

                          N 1 Reply Last reply
                          5
                          • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                            Fair enough. There’s a push and pull in negotiations that we (generally) don’t see. I’m trying to read the tea leaves to figure out why Carney would ditch the DST, and this is a possible reason. I can’t know if it’s the reason. But it’s interesting to think about.

                            We aren’t unique in having a tax like this,

                            I think we’re unique in that we made our tax retroactive.

                            and the US has no place saying it’s unfair when it’s not even only foreign companies paying.

                            Generally, I agree that the US has no place dictating our tax policy, but they are within their rights to control their trade with us. 90% of the companies paying are US tech companies (I think that’s in the Globe explainer), so I can see why poking us to see what they can get. I don’t like it, but that’s (sadly) irrelevant.

                            W This user is from outside of this forum
                            W This user is from outside of this forum
                            wise_pancake@lemmy.ca
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Yeah there’s definitely a big picture

                            I just can’t take anything the current US admin says as serious, so when they say they’ll walk away I would want to call that bluff.

                            spacecowboy@lemmy.caS 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                              Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

                              Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

                              (From the Globe)

                              That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

                              Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

                              83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

                              During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

                              I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

                              H This user is from outside of this forum
                              H This user is from outside of this forum
                              humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              DST was going to bring in $1.5B/year in revenue. Dairy farmers would be happy to move to price subsidy model that the US has. Canada produces 9.5B litres of milk, and together with about $1B in programs for dairy farmers, 25c/liter paid to farmers would reduce retail milk prices by $1/liter.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              2
                              • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                                There was a lot of talk about elbows up, but I’m unclear what is being taxed and how. There’s a list, but I don’t know what that represents in terms of financial cost to Canadian buyers and US producers.

                                Like, is it a tiny bit of posturing for the home crowd, or is it something that will hurt US industries (and Canadian buyers)? I don’t know.

                                N This user is from outside of this forum
                                N This user is from outside of this forum
                                nyan@lemmy.cafe
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Some of the existing countertariffs are targeted specifically at the southern states (thus oranges, sugar, tobacco, and such) who tend to be more likely to vote Republican. The idea was originally less “strike out against everyone in the US even if they didn’t want this” and more “hurt the people who caused this mess”. How well that’s worked in practice is difficult to say.

                                S 1 Reply Last reply
                                2
                                • N nyan@lemmy.cafe

                                  Some of the existing countertariffs are targeted specifically at the southern states (thus oranges, sugar, tobacco, and such) who tend to be more likely to vote Republican. The idea was originally less “strike out against everyone in the US even if they didn’t want this” and more “hurt the people who caused this mess”. How well that’s worked in practice is difficult to say.

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sbv@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  That original strategy was a good one - I think it was used to strong effect during the first Trump presidency. I hope these tariffs are equally effective, but I haven’t heard too much since they were implemented.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jaxxed@lemmy.ml
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    He doesn’t want to give Trump anything to bully on in public, now that he has made a concession.

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • S sbv@sh.itjust.works

                                      Here’s my theory: Carney dropped the DST because of supply management on dairy. My evidence is sparse, but:

                                      Last month, the U.S. and Britain announced a trade deal related to a range of products. But Britain’s 2-per-cent DST was not affected.

                                      (From the Globe)

                                      That shows other countries have a DST but that hasn’t been a sticking point in trade negotiations.

                                      Meanwhile, Quebec really likes supply management:

                                      83 per cent of Quebecers want governments to do everything in their power to protect the country’s supply management system.

                                      During the next election, Carney will probably need Quebec’s support to stay in power. By giving up the DST, Carney may be able to keep supply management for dairy, and avoid alienating Quebec voters.

                                      I guess we’ll see during the final negotiations. Do our dairy farmers get to keep their protections?

                                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                                      puppinstuff@lemmy.ca
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      But it’s not going to work. The argument assumes standard negotiation rules are in play. This is a bully who’s willing to blow up the trade deal because he thinks even a loss will be an annexation win.

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • P puppinstuff@lemmy.ca

                                        But it’s not going to work. The argument assumes standard negotiation rules are in play. This is a bully who’s willing to blow up the trade deal because he thinks even a loss will be an annexation win.

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        sbv@sh.itjust.works
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        I guess we’ll find out in a few weeks.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • W wise_pancake@lemmy.ca

                                          Yeah there’s definitely a big picture

                                          I just can’t take anything the current US admin says as serious, so when they say they’ll walk away I would want to call that bluff.

                                          spacecowboy@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          spacecowboy@lemmy.caS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          spacecowboy@lemmy.ca
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          I think at this point we’re just buying time to diversify trade. It’s incredibly stupid to to think factories can be built in two weeks or even that businesses can source products from suppliers in other countries in that time frame. This is seemingly what Trump thinks, but yeah, it’s stupid.

                                          So I’m hoping they’re doing everything needed to end dependence on the US in the background while mitigating the impact of Trump’s nonsense in the short term. But as @sbv@sh.itjust.works says, we can’t really know we’re just reading tea leaves.

                                          S 1 Reply Last reply
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