Food too expensive? It’s time for public grocery stores
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What you said:
typical grocery store
What I said:
IMO every city should have public cafeterias
We’re not talking about the same thing. You’re arguing with yourself.
Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking?
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Only available for children in the summer… I don’t think this isn’t the solution being proposed.
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What the fuck does local mean? I just showed you the math that even Los Angeles alone consumes more food than you can possibly grow in California.
You’re the one fucking around with “I want a greenhouse above my grocery store” with no real proof that it would matter or be a good use of space.
You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
I think people have to realize that capitalism has made us search for cheap over quality and nutrition when it comes to food.
Food is literally one of two things that keep us alive and thriving yet we balk at food that is slightly more expensive but much more nutritious, lasts much longer and requires less volume to feed one’s self due to this nutrient density vs. Commercially grown food, that has been transported thousands of kilometers to your local store.
You can’t afford the increase in price to buy quality food? That has nothing to do with the food, what or costs or what you should be buying or eating. It’s capitalism keeping you part of the slave class and making you think grocery store prices are normal.
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Sorry, we’d rather keep paving over farmland to make unaffordable mcmansions because our leaders cannot fathom a country that is self sufficient where values aren’t constantly increasing
Or allowing our wealthiest to buy up all the farmland so they have complete control of everything…like a feudal king.
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It’s a nice utopian idea, but it just doesn’t do anything. The aquaponics and greenhouse are just a bad utilization of such prime real estate space, the amount of food produced would be so low as to be a rounding error for the food they would still need to import and you could use that same floor space to house hundreds of more people.
Go look at my comment from a few minutes ago showing the production math for 5 stories of hydroponics.
Aquaponics also has an issue with nutrient density so you would need more volume than traditional soil growing methods to create the same volume of nutrition.
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Lol… That’s a place where affluent people feel “authentic”
They are hardly cheap and that’s the point
Modern farmers market is yuppie exercise
That’s not the case everywhere, sucks to live In a sucky place, don’t project your issues on the rest of world. The farmers markets in Canada are farmer selling their produce, it’s cheaper than big box stores, and they take all the profit themselves other than rent for a stall.
How do they work in your country?
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Honestly where I live, farmers markets are often the same price, sometimes a bit more and actually sometimes a bit less than a lot of grocery stores. All our groceries have to be shipped on a boat so it actually often is cheaper to grow and buy local.
Either way I prefer to give my money to the “yuppies” than to fuckhead billionaires like Galen Weston and Jim Pattison. I acknowledge that’s a privelege but I also won’t shit on people who make the same choice or who can’t afford to make that choice. The problem is not any of us, it’s the price-fixing ballsacks.
… farmers markets don’t work without local farms…. Lmfao what a take.
They will also also have cheap seasonal food, if you want out of season, it’s always going to be expensive. Sounds like people here don’t understand how farmers market actually work and expect them to have the same options as the big box stores…
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I think people have to realize that capitalism has made us search for cheap over quality and nutrition when it comes to food.
Food is literally one of two things that keep us alive and thriving yet we balk at food that is slightly more expensive but much more nutritious, lasts much longer and requires less volume to feed one’s self due to this nutrient density vs. Commercially grown food, that has been transported thousands of kilometers to your local store.
You can’t afford the increase in price to buy quality food? That has nothing to do with the food, what or costs or what you should be buying or eating. It’s capitalism keeping you part of the slave class and making you think grocery store prices are normal.
They have the same nutrients as commercially grown. They have a higher density because theyre smaller and have way lower production. The neutrient declaine is going to happen regardless of you using high or low yield it just a matter of scale and time. All of this started exactly how you believe we should be doing it now. The problem is that doesnt make enough food for everyone and it only takes one bad year and a LOT of people dont get anything. So we selected for traits to stop that. The problem is that now we have to choose more land and resources (fertilizer and energy) to maintain heirloom strains and grow them at scale and transport them around faster and farther than theyre designed to last. Or less quality per yield but far more yield and much longer sheld life. Without forcing everyone to live within a certain radius of an heirloom farm there is only so much you can do before logistics and shelf life simply dont cut it anymore.
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… farmers markets don’t work without local farms…. Lmfao what a take.
They will also also have cheap seasonal food, if you want out of season, it’s always going to be expensive. Sounds like people here don’t understand how farmers market actually work and expect them to have the same options as the big box stores…
How did you even glean that from what I said? Yeah, of course they have cheap seasonal food that’s exactly my point. That’s exactly why they’re not overpriced yuppie shit as the person I was replying to claimed. People claim they’re overpriced anyway because they’re comparing them to the grocery store chains that sell less quality food and not local food for cheaper and underpay their workers. I’m not comparing apples to organes here I’m literally saying people would rather pay $4 for a pound pf California strawberries than $7 for a pound of local seasonal strawberries.
They don’t work in places without local farms, that’s fine then figure out something else for that area, but my point is no need to shit on farmers markets or on buying local.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
I have found that my local co-op has some great prices for some items and others that are more expensive but it depends on what I need to purchase. Their bulk teas are such a good deal and really the only place I can buy bulk teas. Their bulk goods are a good deal as well. Some of the fruit and vegetables are a good deal unless its not in season. Their bread (freshly made from a local bakery) tastes amazing and a great deal as well.
That being said I don’t love their meat selection (smaller selection, more expensive but has a few gems), nor do I like to buy their boxed standard goods. Broths, snacks, canned goods or anything like that is more expensive and doesn’t seem worth it for the quality difference. The key is to find a few anchors that get you there. I don’t go as often to my co-op compared to my local trader joes.
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They have the same nutrients as commercially grown. They have a higher density because theyre smaller and have way lower production. The neutrient declaine is going to happen regardless of you using high or low yield it just a matter of scale and time. All of this started exactly how you believe we should be doing it now. The problem is that doesnt make enough food for everyone and it only takes one bad year and a LOT of people dont get anything. So we selected for traits to stop that. The problem is that now we have to choose more land and resources (fertilizer and energy) to maintain heirloom strains and grow them at scale and transport them around faster and farther than theyre designed to last. Or less quality per yield but far more yield and much longer sheld life. Without forcing everyone to live within a certain radius of an heirloom farm there is only so much you can do before logistics and shelf life simply dont cut it anymore.
And commercially grown vegetables are also lacking in nutrient density and quality due to poor farming practices.
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It’s tough. Co-ops I’ve checked out are all about organic, which is cool but they’re more expensive. I’ve looked at farm stands and Saturday markets but they’re are more expensive too.
Not to mention that a farmer’s market vendors can just lie about the origin of their products.
Farmers market lies exposed: Marketplace hidden camera investigation
Hidden camera investigation reveals vendors twisting the truth about where their produce was grown.
CBC (www.cbc.ca)
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You seem to be assuming that this idea would have to solve all food consumed by everyone. No one is making that assumption except for you.
Thank you. I’m literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I’ve suggested this will replace Loblaws.
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Replace grocery store with cafeteria, do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking?
No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for.
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Our local school opened up one of these programs during the pandemic. It’s a blessing but it only is for kids and only lasts 8 weeks during the summer
Lol. Welcome to ‘growing seasons’
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No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for.
Look, I’m all for making the world a better place. So here’s my 2c, from somebody who’s tried and done it in a small manner. You’ll need allies, partners. You’ll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you’re never going to get very far. Sure, we’re all online randos, but if you can’t muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you’re going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world.
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Look, I’m all for making the world a better place. So here’s my 2c, from somebody who’s tried and done it in a small manner. You’ll need allies, partners. You’ll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you’re never going to get very far. Sure, we’re all online randos, but if you can’t muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you’re going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world.
do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking?
And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile?
Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn’t resist could you? Ya hypocrite.
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Only available for children in the summer… I don’t think this isn’t the solution being proposed.
It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages.
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I have found that my local co-op has some great prices for some items and others that are more expensive but it depends on what I need to purchase. Their bulk teas are such a good deal and really the only place I can buy bulk teas. Their bulk goods are a good deal as well. Some of the fruit and vegetables are a good deal unless its not in season. Their bread (freshly made from a local bakery) tastes amazing and a great deal as well.
That being said I don’t love their meat selection (smaller selection, more expensive but has a few gems), nor do I like to buy their boxed standard goods. Broths, snacks, canned goods or anything like that is more expensive and doesn’t seem worth it for the quality difference. The key is to find a few anchors that get you there. I don’t go as often to my co-op compared to my local trader joes.
This is partly because there is no good supply chain or real wholesale market for mid priced consumer packaged goods. It’s essentially completely owned by the ogilopolies.
There is for produce and meats which share the supply chain with restaurants.
