They have the same nutrients as commercially grown. They have a higher density because theyre smaller and have way lower production. The neutrient declaine is going to happen regardless of you using high or low yield it just a matter of scale and time. All of this started exactly how you believe we should be doing it now. The problem is that doesnt make enough food for everyone and it only takes one bad year and a LOT of people dont get anything. So we selected for traits to stop that. The problem is that now we have to choose more land and resources (fertilizer and energy) to maintain heirloom strains and grow them at scale and transport them around faster and farther than theyre designed to last. Or less quality per yield but far more yield and much longer sheld life. Without forcing everyone to live within a certain radius of an heirloom farm there is only so much you can do before logistics and shelf life simply dont cut it anymore.

How did you even glean that from what I said? Yeah, of course they have cheap seasonal food that’s exactly my point. That’s exactly why they’re not overpriced yuppie shit as the person I was replying to claimed. People claim they’re overpriced anyway because they’re comparing them to the grocery store chains that sell less quality food and not local food for cheaper and underpay their workers. I’m not comparing apples to organes here I’m literally saying people would rather pay $4 for a pound pf California strawberries than $7 for a pound of local seasonal strawberries.

They don’t work in places without local farms, that’s fine then figure out something else for that area, but my point is no need to shit on farmers markets or on buying local.

I have found that my local co-op has some great prices for some items and others that are more expensive but it depends on what I need to purchase. Their bulk teas are such a good deal and really the only place I can buy bulk teas. Their bulk goods are a good deal as well. Some of the fruit and vegetables are a good deal unless its not in season. Their bread (freshly made from a local bakery) tastes amazing and a great deal as well.

That being said I don’t love their meat selection (smaller selection, more expensive but has a few gems), nor do I like to buy their boxed standard goods. Broths, snacks, canned goods or anything like that is more expensive and doesn’t seem worth it for the quality difference. The key is to find a few anchors that get you there. I don’t go as often to my co-op compared to my local trader joes.

And commercially grown vegetables are also lacking in nutrient density and quality due to poor farming practices.

Not to mention that a farmer’s market vendors can just lie about the origin of their products.

Thank you. I’m literally just trying to fix food banks not having enough food and a handful of people are insisting I’ve suggested this will replace Loblaws.

No I have an idea to fix food bank shortages, while creating jobs and teaching practical skills. The shortage that occurred collectively in your brains I have nothing for.

Lol. Welcome to ‘growing seasons’

Look, I’m all for making the world a better place. So here’s my 2c, from somebody who’s tried and done it in a small manner. You’ll need allies, partners. You’ll face a lot of doubt and questions. If you meet it all with outright hostility, you’re never going to get very far. Sure, we’re all online randos, but if you can’t muster a decent argument with all the time in the world, you’re going to have a hard time persuading anybody in the real world.

do you have an actual argument or are you just nitpicking?

And what part of that comment was indented to make me an ally or not perceive you as outrightly hostile?

Cute adhominim at the end there. Couldn’t resist could you? Ya hypocrite.

It is a solution in search of a problem. And it would create far more expensive problems than it proposes to solve. The Soviets already did this kind of thing--the same Soviets who deliberately starved millions to death with manufactured food shortages.

This is partly because there is no good supply chain or real wholesale market for mid priced consumer packaged goods. It’s essentially completely owned by the ogilopolies.

There is for produce and meats which share the supply chain with restaurants.

I’ve worked with co-ops both on the retail grocery side and ag aggregator side, and the traditional supply chain is similar. The ag co-ops serve as a middleman, and the retail grocery will usually deal with a distributor.

The grocery co-op had way more direct accounts (hundreds) than a traditional grocery, but that was mostly for smaller company specialty goods. The vast majority of the product moving off the shelves was bought from one of two big distributors.

Makes complete sense to me. Its also lots of work to create some of those goods at home. I refuse to make my own broth despite everyone saying its easy and delicious. I don’t have the time nor do I want to store it

Maybe as a nation, we shouldn’t be letting profits get in the way of feeding people? Just a wild suggestion.

Is there a name for the fallacy that something is doomed to fail just because some quasi-communist state tried to implement something similar at some point?

The fallacy is failing to understand the authoritarian spirit behind purported 'humanitarian' causes, especially those that involve using the deadly force of the state for funding. People who worship the idol of political power are generally lacking awareness of their own desire to boss others around. Failing to learn from history is part and parcel of the matter. Giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply has one result, and history has proved it a hundred times over. Complain all you want about greed in the market--government is near infinitely greedier.

Not sure why you got down voted buts the current supply chain.

Not sure how it would change since they are already taxing people on food but it would need to be cheaper than the grocery store.

Alright friend, OP certainly never implied “giving government ubiquitous control over the food supply” by any means, so at least this is clearly a simple case of strawman fallacy.

edit: like if you think about it for literally more than two seconds, you’ll realize that OP’s idea involved building capacity amongst the general population for horticulture, something which fundamentally opposes the idea of giving government ubiquitous control.

There are proper farmers markets in Cali and some other locales where it is price competitive vis-a-vis grocery in season … but they are not wide spread and it is very much an exception to the rule on quality produce access year around.

How do Canadian markets operate in the winter?