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Wandering Adventure Party

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Trust nothing

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved RPGMemes
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  • HossenfefferH Hossenfeffer

    I know this is just a meme and all but do people still play 'adversarial GMโ€™ games these days? I never enjoyed that dynamic as a player or a GM.

    ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ตโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡จโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฑโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡นโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€ŒS This user is from outside of this forum
    ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ตโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡จโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฑโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡นโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€ŒS This user is from outside of this forum
    ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ตโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡จโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฑโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡นโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€Œ
    wrote on last edited by
    #14

    Some DMs are just stupid, assholes, or both. I rarely go back if theyโ€™re either. Like forcing the players into an encounter where all their toolkits are nerfed. Close quarters for casters, magical monsters that canโ€™t be harmed by melee, or NPCs that are way OP for the group and they stick to the Monster Manual to the letter.

    Internal dialogues like: I guess it still has 1 HP left so Iโ€™m going to give it a full round of attacks.

    Knowing damn well they could have let it die.

    S 1 Reply Last reply
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    • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      mousekeyboard@ttrpg.networkM This user is from outside of this forum
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      mousekeyboard@ttrpg.network
      wrote on last edited by
      #15

      ITโ€™S CHOWDAH YOU IDIOT!

      edgemaster72@lemmy.worldE 1 Reply Last reply
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      • J jjjalljs@ttrpg.network

        And DMs, if you want to surprise people, do it with plot and stakes, not constant item ambushes.

        A good surprise has foreshadowing so the players go โ€œooh that makes sense. We should have thought of thatโ€. If all the corpses in the room look like they died of drowning and thereโ€™s scratches on the door, itโ€™s not a total surprise if thereโ€™s a trap that locks the door and fills the room with water.

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        Malgas
        wrote on last edited by
        #16

        Also, good foreshadowing always creates the possibility that your audience (the players, in this case) will work out whatโ€™s really going on before you expected them to. This is not a flaw, it doesnโ€™t โ€œspoilโ€ the experience. It is, in fact, incredibly satisfying to put a bunch of clues together and then see that prediction vindicated when the twist is revealed.

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        • ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ตโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡จโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฑโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡นโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€ŒS ๐Ÿ‡ธโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ตโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡จโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡บโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฑโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ฆโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡นโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ชโ€Œ๐Ÿ‡ทโ€Œ

          Some DMs are just stupid, assholes, or both. I rarely go back if theyโ€™re either. Like forcing the players into an encounter where all their toolkits are nerfed. Close quarters for casters, magical monsters that canโ€™t be harmed by melee, or NPCs that are way OP for the group and they stick to the Monster Manual to the letter.

          Internal dialogues like: I guess it still has 1 HP left so Iโ€™m going to give it a full round of attacks.

          Knowing damn well they could have let it die.

          S This user is from outside of this forum
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          Schadrach
          wrote on last edited by
          #17

          Like forcing the players into an encounter where all their toolkits are nerfed. Close quarters for casters, magical monsters that canโ€™t be harmed by melee, or NPCs that are way OP for the group and they stick to the Monster Manual to the letter.

          When I GM, it depends on just how narrow and just how powerful your particular toolkit is. Iโ€™m not going to ensure that you can do whatever your thing is at absolutely every opportunity, and if your schtick becomes well known, enemies capable of planning will plan around it when feasible. The more narrow your schtick is, the more scenarios you might encounter where it does not apply simply by chance (for example, if youโ€™re a flying archer every room in a dungeon wonโ€™t gain a minimum 30โ€™ high ceiling to maximize your use of that). The more disproportionately powerful your schtick is compared to other party members, the more likely I am to specifically come up with occasional scenarios meant to make it not apply so someone else gets to shine.

          Sometimes I will signpost something is a very bad idea, and if you do it anyways (or do something else absurdly dangerously foolish) Iโ€™m not going to pop up a guard rail to save you at the last moment - retrieving your body from somewhere adrift on the astral and your soul from the gemstone the archdevil you pissed off is keeping in his treasury to try to save you is the next adventure hook.

          You encounter a huge, elaborate tome, on a concealed lectern, in a library connected by a hidden door directly off the bedroom of a powerful wizard, you detect magic and get extremely powerful auras of conjuration, transmutation and evocation maybe โ€œI flip it open to a random page and start reading aloud, Iโ€™ll sound out any words I donโ€™t recognizeโ€ is not, in fact, a wise decision. The copy of โ€œWords You Mispronounce And Die: A Primer For Apprentice Wizardsโ€ you saw on one of the shelves on the way there, the references to a cursed grimoire of terrible power, the book being bound in the skin of an angel covered in burns and scars, etc, etc should have maybe hinted at that.

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          • I iunnrais@lemmy.world

            When I want that style of game, I play paranoia. I agree, that style of game CAN be fun! And sometimes I do want it! Itโ€™s justโ€ฆ thereโ€™s this whole awesome game based on it, that makes it work. DnD scratches an entirely different itch for me, and Iโ€™d rather keep it distinct.

            I always tell my players that unlike other TTRPGs, Paranoia is a game that actually has winners and losers at the end. And since I only run it as one shots, we can have some time at the end going over what was really happening at each stage, letting everyone in on all the jokes, and having a grand time with it. While Iโ€™m not into kink, Iโ€™ve heard itโ€™s similar. Consent is king, and you still gotta make sure everyone is enjoying it.

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            Schadrach
            wrote on last edited by
            #18

            Paranoia, the game where every character is technically engaged in a crime punishable by death at basically all times, and youโ€™re given a number of clones because you are expected to dieโ€ฆa lot. Also the R&D gadgets, like the personal disintegrator which does exactly what it says on the tin - disintegrates your person.

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            • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              pticrix@lemmy.ca
              wrote on last edited by
              #19

              Did not roll perception check ; the chowder was bad and will hit the intestines in a few hours during the dungeon delving.

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              • galacticwaffle@lemmings.worldG galacticwaffle@lemmings.world

                Trust nothing, especially cutlery. I have zero sympathy for the wizard who burns every Detect Magic on bowls and chairs, but I also have even less for the DM who treats player tools like a punchline. Detect Magic telling someone โ€œitโ€™s chowderโ€ is a cop-out, same as a DM saying โ€œyou failed the skill check because you looked suspicious.โ€ If a spell exists to reveal a magical aura, use it to reveal an aura, not to sass the player.

                Play smart, but donโ€™t be that paranoid asshole who thwarts every fun thing. And DMs, if you want to surprise people, do it with plot and stakes, not constant item ambushes. Let spells do their job, let players have some agency, and yes, keep an eye on the spoon.

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                Schadrach
                wrote on last edited by
                #20

                Detect Magic telling someone โ€œitโ€™s chowderโ€ is a cop-out, same as a DM saying โ€œyou failed the skill check because you looked suspicious.โ€ If a spell exists to reveal a magical aura, use it to reveal an aura, not to sass the player.

                My answer in that case is โ€œYou detect no auraโ€ from the non-magical chowder (or maybe they do detect one if it was flavored with prestidigitation), unless itโ€™s an edition where the effect is a cone, and they are sitting across the table from their friend blinged out in magical gear, in which case they are definitely detecting an aura. Several of them. And theyโ€™re going to have to take time, focus, and make checks to recognize that none are coming from the chowder.

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                • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  JackbyDev
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #21

                  What school of cuisine is the chowder?

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                  • mousekeyboard@ttrpg.networkM mousekeyboard@ttrpg.network

                    ITโ€™S CHOWDAH YOU IDIOT!

                    edgemaster72@lemmy.worldE This user is from outside of this forum
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                    edgemaster72@lemmy.world
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #22

                    Showwdair!

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                    • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                      kionay
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #23

                      Ah yes, like The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. A classic.

                      R 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • S Schadrach

                        Paranoia, the game where every character is technically engaged in a crime punishable by death at basically all times, and youโ€™re given a number of clones because you are expected to dieโ€ฆa lot. Also the R&D gadgets, like the personal disintegrator which does exactly what it says on the tin - disintegrates your person.

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                        iunnrais@lemmy.world
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #24

                        Not one crime, at least two: belonging to a secret society, and having an unregistered mutant power. Except some secret societies might actually be sponsored by the stateโ€” not that the players know that. And you can register your mutant power, except that this will make you a targeted minority subject to massive discrimination, not to mention being forced to use your power in serviceโ€” and your own power might kill you, and you donโ€™t really know how to use it fully, and being forced to use it also means being put on the front lines of deadly combatโ€ฆ

                        But thatโ€™s not what makes the adversarial play in paranoia so great. Itโ€™s that everyone has a different true objective that they are following in secret, while ostensively all being on the same team. Thatโ€™s what I mean by โ€œthere are winners and losers in this gameโ€. You can objectively determine who succeeded and who failed, and a good mission will make those secret missions mutually exclusive. Itโ€™s great fun!

                        Itโ€™s like in d&d when you get the asshole player who really just wants to steal from the rest of the party and not get caught, except everyone is in on it and everyone is trying to do something different to everyone else, to very different degrees, and everyone expects to be betrayed at all times, and often isโ€” except you get extra lives so you can keep playing anywayโ€ฆ and then you get to laugh about it together at the end! Itโ€™s great!

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                        • K kionay

                          Ah yes, like The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo. A classic.

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                          rmrf@lemmy.ml
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #25

                          That happened to my buddy Eric

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                          • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                            archpawn@lemmy.world
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #26

                            If Detect Evil and Good detects creature type then sure, maybe Detect Magic detects chowder.

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                            • S stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                              ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ K This user is from outside of this forum
                              ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ K This user is from outside of this forum
                              ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ
                              wrote on last edited by kolanaki@pawb.social
                              #27

                              No magic. No curse. Just your average every day poison.

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                              • HossenfefferH Hossenfeffer

                                I know this is just a meme and all but do people still play 'adversarial GMโ€™ games these days? I never enjoyed that dynamic as a player or a GM.

                                ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ K This user is from outside of this forum
                                ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ K This user is from outside of this forum
                                ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐ŸŒ€ ๐Ÿ‡ฑ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ ๐Ÿ‡ฐ ๐Ÿ‡ฎ
                                wrote on last edited by kolanaki@pawb.social
                                #28

                                The only idea I even have for such a campaign is one where all the BBGs are dopplegangers of the party and the players are trying to defeat me, playing as their dopplegangers.

                                I would only be able to do what the players themselves can do. So it becomes a test of who understands the build better. The player or the DM.

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