Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
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I don’t. All tools can be abused.
How is a municipal government or authorities going to abuse speed bumps, narrow streets, or other physical deterrents for speeding compared to electronic devices, pray tell?
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Lane width restriction is my preferred method, but speed bumps are probably even more guaranteed to be effective.
Lane width restrictions only slow down bad and nervous drivers.
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
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In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
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A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
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How is a municipal government or authorities going to abuse speed bumps, narrow streets, or other physical deterrents for speeding compared to electronic devices, pray tell?
? You’ve never seen a cop park right over a little dip in the road at the bottom of a hill right where the limit changes?
I’ve never seen stupider argument than I have with these speed camera debates. Read the speed limit sign, look at your speed, follow that speed. I’d prefer your careless ass get a ticket in the mail from a camera than pay a dumb cop to sit there all day letting his buddies and “important” people go while giving everyone else a hard time.
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Except then everyone has to suffer for the stupidity of few, and emergency vehicles can’t got faster in an emergency…
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Of all the fucked up technologies police forces and governments are using, many of which have terrifying abuse potential, this is the one people complain about.
It’s wedge issues like this that cause enough distraction to allow increased surveillance and authoritarianism of the general public. That’s the police biz.
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They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
Part of the problem is that roadway rule enforcement is seen as the police’s problem and the police’s budget, which is probably why they were getting the revenue from the cameras in the first place.
The portion of police budgets that goes to traffic control, responding to accidents, doing radar, and issuing tickets should be considered part of the roadway budget. How we design, fund, maintain roadways and their alternatives directly impacts the funding needed to enforce roadway rules and respond to roadway accidents. It doesn’t seem fair for speed enforcement not to be considered while designing the road then just dump that problem onto the police budget.
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? You’ve never seen a cop park right over a little dip in the road at the bottom of a hill right where the limit changes?
I’ve never seen stupider argument than I have with these speed camera debates. Read the speed limit sign, look at your speed, follow that speed. I’d prefer your careless ass get a ticket in the mail from a camera than pay a dumb cop to sit there all day letting his buddies and “important” people go while giving everyone else a hard time.
Hey, don’t get mad at me. I follow the speed limit. I follow the damn rules.
The problem is when the authorities start accusing law abiding people for extra money and to reach their quota.
Point your anger at the real problem.
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Part of the problem is that roadway rule enforcement is seen as the police’s problem and the police’s budget, which is probably why they were getting the revenue from the cameras in the first place.
The portion of police budgets that goes to traffic control, responding to accidents, doing radar, and issuing tickets should be considered part of the roadway budget. How we design, fund, maintain roadways and their alternatives directly impacts the funding needed to enforce roadway rules and respond to roadway accidents. It doesn’t seem fair for speed enforcement not to be considered while designing the road then just dump that problem onto the police budget.
Excellent point. There are so many critical errors in how our society operates. It gets overwhelming sometimes with how far necessary reform reaches into things we all take for granted.
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Hey, don’t get mad at me. I follow the speed limit. I follow the damn rules.
The problem is when the authorities start accusing law abiding people for extra money and to reach their quota.
Point your anger at the real problem.
Forgive me if you thought I was pointing at you specifically. I’m pointing at idiots who make all these stupid and childish arguments, in this thread, but in every Lemmy post about speed cameras.
The real problem is people incapable of adhering to societal rules. The real problem is children in adult clothes getting mad when they actually get in trouble for breaking rules. “Oh why dont they just redesign the whole town to make that impossible?!?! What if someone hacks the speed camera and gives innocent people a ticket!!!Why must I read and obey the speed limit??? Oh the injustice!”
Speed cameras are inexpensive, they are not prejudiced, and they work. They cause no trouble to anyone obeying the limit and send a ticket to those who do. To everyone who also argues about fines being legal for the rich, yeah, that’s bullshit. Solve THAT problem. I’m all for it.
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They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
The revenues should have never gone to the police in the first place, they should go into redesigning and rebuilding problematic stroads so the cameras become unnecessary over time while other new permanent features of the road like speedbumps, curves, narrowing, and other traffic calming changes will enforce the speed limits passively.
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Like what, specifically?
Trees, removing excess lane space, avoiding long straight stretches (ideally with street layout, but also chicanes), etcetera. If a road feels like a residential road, people treat it like one. And vice versa, if a road feels like a highway…
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A spectre is haunting Canadian roads: the real prospect of actually having to pay a fine for not respecting the speed limit. As speed cameras proliferate, particularly in Ontario, some drivers are showing their displeasure. Many of the cameras have been vandalized and one in Toronto cut down six times.
It’s time for a deep breath.
Speed cameras shouldn’t disappear, they should multiply. The cameras are effective and, because their penalty is so easily avoided, they are fair.
…
In fact, a recent poll for CAA showed majority support among Ontarians for the cameras. Politicians who pander to the minority of drivers who hate them are gambling with public safety.
Those politicians span the ideological spectrum, from Ontario’s Progressive Conservative Premier Doug Ford to former Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca, now mayor of suburban Vaughan, and left-leaning Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.
So busy trying to placate drivers, these politicians ignore that speed cameras work. The hit in the wallet is sufficiently unpleasant that it convinces people to slow down. For evidence, consider that the number of tickets issued by any given camera typically goes down over time.
That effect has been further demonstrated by research from a hospital and university in Toronto. According to their findings, referenced in a recent city staff report, the proportion of vehicles speeding went down 45 per cent after cameras were installed near schools and in high-collision areas.
…
A person hit by a vehicle travelling at 30 kilometres an hour has a 90-per-cent chance of surviving. Increase the speed to 40 kilometres an hour, though, and the survival rate drops to 60 per cent. A person hit at 50 kilometres an hour has only a 20-per-cent chance of living.
Globe editorial: Sorry, speed cameras aren’t the problem
Drivers and politicians who rail against them are ignoring the real issue and gambling with public safety
The Globe and Mail (www.theglobeandmail.com)
Typical argument for someone who’s never lived in a place with speed cameras. The cameras themselves, sure, they’re fine.
They start getting people going 10-over, but people adjust their habits accordingly, revenue drops, now they target people going 2 over.
Next they target people in school zones. All well and good. But we need to increase revenue. Parks are now school zones. Trails near the roads are now school zones. And now we’re expanding the zone times from 6am-9pm. Love my 36 in a 30 along a 60 road at 2047pm ticket. GREAT.
Finally, after people get used to all the above they start messing with the limits themselves. 6 lane roads, down to 40… but not the entire thing. lets have a road that went through town from 110-90-60-90-110 turn into 110-50-90-60-70-30-40-70-50-90-60-90-110-50-110. in 8km, speed cameras at every reduction! [Calgary 16th ave] Miss a zone and you’re screwed.
But that’s not enough. We need to grow revenue. Lets have forward facing cameras implimented too, and take points. That way our friends in insurance can benefit too. They will even pay a bounty for each person caught.
The same goes for red lights - see the winnipeg 0.5second yellow light camera scandal.
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Forgive me if you thought I was pointing at you specifically. I’m pointing at idiots who make all these stupid and childish arguments, in this thread, but in every Lemmy post about speed cameras.
The real problem is people incapable of adhering to societal rules. The real problem is children in adult clothes getting mad when they actually get in trouble for breaking rules. “Oh why dont they just redesign the whole town to make that impossible?!?! What if someone hacks the speed camera and gives innocent people a ticket!!!Why must I read and obey the speed limit??? Oh the injustice!”
Speed cameras are inexpensive, they are not prejudiced, and they work. They cause no trouble to anyone obeying the limit and send a ticket to those who do. To everyone who also argues about fines being legal for the rich, yeah, that’s bullshit. Solve THAT problem. I’m all for it.
Yeah, I hear ya.
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Typical argument for someone who’s never lived in a place with speed cameras. The cameras themselves, sure, they’re fine.
They start getting people going 10-over, but people adjust their habits accordingly, revenue drops, now they target people going 2 over.
Next they target people in school zones. All well and good. But we need to increase revenue. Parks are now school zones. Trails near the roads are now school zones. And now we’re expanding the zone times from 6am-9pm. Love my 36 in a 30 along a 60 road at 2047pm ticket. GREAT.
Finally, after people get used to all the above they start messing with the limits themselves. 6 lane roads, down to 40… but not the entire thing. lets have a road that went through town from 110-90-60-90-110 turn into 110-50-90-60-70-30-40-70-50-90-60-90-110-50-110. in 8km, speed cameras at every reduction! [Calgary 16th ave] Miss a zone and you’re screwed.
But that’s not enough. We need to grow revenue. Lets have forward facing cameras implimented too, and take points. That way our friends in insurance can benefit too. They will even pay a bounty for each person caught.
The same goes for red lights - see the winnipeg 0.5second yellow light camera scandal.
They typically call those zones by parks, trails, and sports complexs community safety zones. To be honest those zones should be 24 hours as they see lots pedestrian traffic often including children.
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Oh man, yeah. I didn’t think about it initially, but I used to live in front of a nasty bump in the street. Trucks that passed by would rattle and slam every time they passed on it. It was so loud it woke me up at night.
Oh and I forgot the bumps also impeded drainage so now during heavy rain, or flash melts, there’s a nice lake in the street.
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Typical argument for someone who’s never lived in a place with speed cameras. The cameras themselves, sure, they’re fine.
They start getting people going 10-over, but people adjust their habits accordingly, revenue drops, now they target people going 2 over.
Next they target people in school zones. All well and good. But we need to increase revenue. Parks are now school zones. Trails near the roads are now school zones. And now we’re expanding the zone times from 6am-9pm. Love my 36 in a 30 along a 60 road at 2047pm ticket. GREAT.
Finally, after people get used to all the above they start messing with the limits themselves. 6 lane roads, down to 40… but not the entire thing. lets have a road that went through town from 110-90-60-90-110 turn into 110-50-90-60-70-30-40-70-50-90-60-90-110-50-110. in 8km, speed cameras at every reduction! [Calgary 16th ave] Miss a zone and you’re screwed.
But that’s not enough. We need to grow revenue. Lets have forward facing cameras implimented too, and take points. That way our friends in insurance can benefit too. They will even pay a bounty for each person caught.
The same goes for red lights - see the winnipeg 0.5second yellow light camera scandal.
In Australia, they have mobile speed cameras. Like they are inside of a special car they just park on the side of the road. No warning. Often placed at annoying spots, like the bottom of hills and stuff.
My first and only speeding ticket was going 45 in a 40 (normally 50) zone. Sun was in my eyes, they had a single construction sign up saying 40, with no other stuff around you’d expect in a construction zone.
I was going to contest it, but had already left for Canada by the time it came in the mail.
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In Australia, they have mobile speed cameras. Like they are inside of a special car they just park on the side of the road. No warning. Often placed at annoying spots, like the bottom of hills and stuff.
My first and only speeding ticket was going 45 in a 40 (normally 50) zone. Sun was in my eyes, they had a single construction sign up saying 40, with no other stuff around you’d expect in a construction zone.
I was going to contest it, but had already left for Canada by the time it came in the mail.
Thankfully, this isn’t legal in most Canadian jurisdictions, speed cameras need to be marked with a sign.
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Typical argument for someone who’s never lived in a place with speed cameras. The cameras themselves, sure, they’re fine.
They start getting people going 10-over, but people adjust their habits accordingly, revenue drops, now they target people going 2 over.
Next they target people in school zones. All well and good. But we need to increase revenue. Parks are now school zones. Trails near the roads are now school zones. And now we’re expanding the zone times from 6am-9pm. Love my 36 in a 30 along a 60 road at 2047pm ticket. GREAT.
Finally, after people get used to all the above they start messing with the limits themselves. 6 lane roads, down to 40… but not the entire thing. lets have a road that went through town from 110-90-60-90-110 turn into 110-50-90-60-70-30-40-70-50-90-60-90-110-50-110. in 8km, speed cameras at every reduction! [Calgary 16th ave] Miss a zone and you’re screwed.
But that’s not enough. We need to grow revenue. Lets have forward facing cameras implimented too, and take points. That way our friends in insurance can benefit too. They will even pay a bounty for each person caught.
The same goes for red lights - see the winnipeg 0.5second yellow light camera scandal.
Can’t recall where I last saw it, but many larger roads are designed for speeds up to twice the posted rate without significant increases in accidents.
Now granted, a big problem in Canada is driver training and vehicle condition, but if Germany can have autobahns with no speed limits, why can’t we? All it would take is a decade or so of gradual re-authenticating skill levels, and a significant inspection system for vehicles. But that’s the trade-off needed if you want to have safe roads at any speed.
Note: for training, it would include extensive mandatory training, pass/fail limits that are far more stringent than what we currently have, and include new driver behavioural features like two lanes pulling apart when a traffic jam occurs, so that emergency vehicles have unrestricted passage – with no non-emergency vehicles using that “shortcut”. For vehicle inspections it would be a level that demands showroom-pristine condition for all vehicles: no visible rust, no nonfunctional parts (even superfluous ones like AC), and the ability to take hydraulic rams to different body parts (underside, body panels, etc.) without the ram punching through due to rust-weakened panels.
This would absolutely trigger the “muh freedumb” people, but you cannot have higher speeds without more stringent safety measures in place.
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They eliminated speed traps in Calgary Alberta fairly recently. The police service is in economic distress because of it. Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
I’m all for reducing speeds but these cameras are well known to be used to fund police departments with massive swat teams, public policing issues, military assault vehicles, automatic weapons and now things like facial recognition software and interception of communications. Is this really what we want as citizens, to become more authoritarian and funded by money grabs until we have a dictator like those to the south of us?
Loss of revenue per year 28 million.
If the fines were directly proportional to income and net worth, I would have absolutely no problem re-instituting those speed traps.
But if it’s a flat rate… any fine that that is a fixed number is meant to punish the working class for the crime of being poor.
And the wealthy will just see it as the cost of having fun, and pay the fine with the spare change they normally forget about in the bottom of their pockets. They’ll just continue doing what they’re doing because fines fail to impact them in any meaningful manner.
